The Challenge: Battle of the Seasons - Ratings

Thing is as long as the show keeps going people will flip flop and opinions will change. Yesterday the fans hated Kenny and Johnny, today they are begging for their return. In the future people will suddenly love Zach or Frank because they will stand up for some cause or they will win when the odds are stacked against them. Then we will bash someone else. It's always a fluid situation. I remember when Brad was man and everybody loved him. Then on Cutthroat he had a litany of haters. People hated Wes and then he became a hero on ruins for a few weeks and then he was a villain again. CT was **** now he's like a real life Batman. Opinions will change and guys who kill ratings now may become pulls down the line. Be interesting to see where the fans stand 2 challenges from now and how the ratings reflect that. I feel strongly that we will see Zach and Frank again soon. I don't think MTV will hold them responsible for the poor ratings. They may not get the full focus of the edit.

Wes is fun to hate. JEK, are annoying but not vile people. Frank is a vile person. He does not create drama, he is not fun to hate. I know several casual fans of the show who quit watching this season because Frank was too annoying. He has proven to kill the ratings of these shows. I hope MTV and BMP are not blind to this.

[QUOTE=Calinks;330904]Thing is as long as the show keeps going people will flip flop and opinions will change. Yesterday the fans hated Kenny and Johnny, today they are begging for their return. In the future people will suddenly love Zach or Frank because they will stand up for some cause or they will win when the odds are stacked against them. Then we will bash someone else. It's always a fluid situation. I remember when Brad was man and everybody loved him. Then on Cutthroat he had a litany of haters. People hated Wes and then he became a hero on ruins for a few weeks and then he was a villain again. CT was **** now he's like a real life Batman. Opinions will change and guys who kill ratings now may become pulls down the line. Be interesting to see where the fans stand 2 challenges from now and how the ratings reflect that. I feel strongly that we will see Zach and Frank again soon. I don't think MTV will hold them responsible for the poor ratings. They may not get the full focus of the edit.[/QUOTE] Yup everyone is a flip flopper once characters start to change up a bit. I remember everyone hated Tyler since his season onto the challenge then most recently he has matured and became laidback, no real storyline, no bad edit and now no one is bothered by him, he's no longer a villain. I hated Wes then loved him, loved Brad/Derrick then got annoyed by them overtime, loved CT hated CT and now I currently loving him again. And that being said... Frank and Zach don't bother me. It's whatever to me - At this point I can tolerate anyone on these shows to an extent. *shrug* One more thing: JKE... we associate that name with more than just Johnny, Kenny and Evan right? Paula and others aren't included? Because I don't think viewers are 100% all here for just the three, they also like the people that they associate/work with. Also people want guys CT for example more than they want JKE.

[QUOTE=Kajun;330906]Wes is fun to hate. JEK, are annoying but not vile people. Frank is a vile person.[B] He does not create drama[/B], he is not fun to hate. I know several casual fans of the show who quit watching this season because Frank was too annoying. He has proven to kill the ratings of these shows. I hope MTV and BMP are not blind to this.[/QUOTE] How can you say that? He got in separate fights with Wes, Alton, Nany, Dustin, Marie, Zach, and Sam this season. All the man does is create drama. I think as long as a reality show character evokes emotion from you, that makes him a good character- I.E. Frank is a good character.

[QUOTE=Calinks;330904]Thing is as long as the show keeps going people will flip flop and opinions will change. Yesterday the fans hated Kenny and Johnny, today they are begging for their return. In the future people will suddenly love Zach or Frank because they will stand up for some cause or they will win when the odds are stacked against them. Then we will bash someone else. It's always a fluid situation. [B] I remember when Brad was man and everybody loved him. Then on Cutthroat he had a litany of haters. People hated Wes and then he became a hero on ruins for a few weeks and then he was a villain again. CT was **** now he's like a real life Batman. [/B] Opinions will change and guys who kill ratings now may become pulls down the line. Be interesting to see where the fans stand 2 challenges from now and how the ratings reflect that. I feel strongly that we will see Zach and Frank again soon. I don't think MTV will hold them responsible for the poor ratings. They may not get the full focus of the edit.[/QUOTE] It's called selective editing. I've seen enough of the show to know that someone like Brad on Cutthroat got a HORRIBLE edit considering pretty much everything he said was the truth and certain things were edited to make him seem like an ******* in situations where he wasn't. Frank isn't getting a selective edit, the guy's just an *******.

[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;330925]How can you say that? He got in separate fights with Wes, Alton, Nany, Dustin, Marie, Zach, and Sam this season. All the man does is create drama. I think as long as a reality show character evokes emotion from you, that makes him a good character- I.E. Frank is a good character.[/QUOTE] Correction, Frank does not create GOOD drama. It is petty, contrived, repetitive, and boring. Frank is not a good character by any means. Just because you scream and shout and say low blows just to ensure you get tv time that doesn't make you a good characters. Good characters generate ratings not kill them. Like I said before, I know multiple who quit watching because of Frank. Even I who have seen every season since the first 6vs6 days would consider skipping out if next season had Frank.

[QUOTE=Nightwolf;330928] Frank isn't getting a selective edit, the guy's just an *******.[/QUOTE] If you dont know Frank personally, you shouldnt say that. If I would have to guess, he is putting up a mask, just to get attention. However there is a reason why Frank has so many friends on this challenge. I havent heard/read anything bad about him, everybody is loving him.

[QUOTE=GDInstall;330937]If you dont know Frank personally, you shouldnt say that. If I would have to guess, he is putting up a mask, just to get attention. However there is a reason why Frank has so many friends on this challenge. I havent heard/read anything bad about him, everybody is loving him.[/QUOTE] Read his twitter--not everyone loves him. I can't believe you just said you haven't heard/read anything bad about him. There's countless examples just on this site. Also, if he's "putting up a mask" that makes it worse. Frank's a horrible human being regardless of how you try to spin it.

[QUOTE=GDInstall;330937]If you dont know Frank personally, you shouldnt say that. If I would have to guess, he is putting up a mask, just to get attention. However there is a reason why Frank has so many friends on this challenge. [B][U]I havent heard/read anything bad about him, everybody is loving him[/U][/B] .[/QUOTE] You must be joking. I can think of like 10 cast members just on this season who do not like him. Let alone the countless fans who cant stand him and its not even a love to hate him kind of thing, its an actual hate and a want for him to be off the show.

[QUOTE=Ch@llengeFan;330940]You must be joking. I can think of like 10 cast members just on this season who do not like him. Let alone the countless fans who cant stand him and its not even a love to hate him kind of thing, its an actual hate and a want for him to be off the show.[/QUOTE] Like or dislike him, Frank didn't draw an audience for the show. MTV knew that the San Diego season didn't attract and audience, so there should not have been any expectation that the season would produce any breakout stars capable of sustaining the Challenges. Ashley might be the one surprise exception, because not only is she good looking, she seems sufficiently capable. I think you are quite correct. Reality TV producers years ago thought they needed a villain whom people would enjoy hating. Frank didn't achieve that distinction in either of his seasons. Just the opposite reaction seems to be common among fans and the ratings appear to support such a view.

[QUOTE=Calinks;330904]Thing is as long as the show keeps going people will flip flop and opinions will change. Yesterday the fans hated Kenny and Johnny, today they are begging for their return. In the future people will suddenly love Zach or Frank because they will stand up for some cause or they will win when the odds are stacked against them. Then we will bash someone else. It's always a fluid situation. I remember when Brad was man and everybody loved him. Then on Cutthroat he had a litany of haters. People hated Wes and then he became a hero on ruins for a few weeks and then he was a villain again. CT was **** now he's like a real life Batman. Opinions will change and guys who kill ratings now may become pulls down the line. Be interesting to see where the fans stand 2 challenges from now and how the ratings reflect that. I feel strongly that we will see Zach and Frank again soon. I don't think MTV will hold them responsible for the poor ratings. They may not get the full focus of the edit.[/QUOTE] Nope my views of Frank and Zach are the exact same from their season. I just don't like them, they come off as really horrible people. Their Twitter account makes it worst! I've NEVER missed a Real World season, when I was old enough to watch it, but their season was the first one I had to stop watching because I can't stand them. At least with JEK it was fun rooting against them, plus they're VERY FUNNY! Their comments would make me laugh. Unlike Frank and Zach who aren't funny, insult and degrade people, and are just straight up horrible people (based on the show). This is the first time I've EVER dropped a challenge and missed the final 2 episodes. The only reason I was able to watch this season was because I had a few favorites on the show. Once Marie and Robb went home I couldn't watch anymore (I LOVE Devyn, but omg no I can't take Zach or Frank). [QUOTE=V1man;330956]Like or dislike him, Frank didn't draw an audience for the show. MTV knew that the San Diego season didn't attract and audience, so there should not have been any expectation that the season would produce any breakout stars capable of sustaining the Challenges. Ashley might be the one surprise exception, because not only is she good looking, she seems sufficiently capable. I think you are quite correct. Reality TV producers years ago thought they needed a villain whom people would enjoy hating. [B]Frank didn't achieve that distinction in either of his seasons. Just the opposite reaction seems to be common among fans and the ratings appear to support such a view.[/B][/QUOTE] V1 from your professional background, do you believe the producers will make the correlation between low ratings and Frank/Zach? I hope they get the hint, and NOT cast them EVER again. I don't think I could watch another challenge where they behave the way they do. I would honestly prefer the show to be canceled.

[QUOTE=producer88;330963] ... V1 from your professional background, [B]do you believe the producers will make the correlation between low ratings and Frank/Zach?[/B]...[/QUOTE] Yes. I think MTV's management had the right idea going into the planning of the season, but the cast they originally hoped for was not available/interested. It can't be lost on MTV or BMP that Frank and Zach have not made the masses swoon...

[QUOTE=V1man;330964]Yes. I think MTV's management had the right idea going into the planning of the season, [B]but the cast they originally hoped for was not available/interested[/B]. It can't be lost on MTV or BMP that Frank and Zach have not made the masses swoon...[/QUOTE] Didnt they originally planed someting new for this season. New cast/new challenges/ new direction or what was that new all about.

[QUOTE=GDInstall;330968]Didnt they originally planed someting new for this season. New cast/new challenges/ new direction or what was that new all about.[/QUOTE] I think V1man means that it didn't work out for a lot of the cast members whom they wanted to return. (The Sydney team, a RR team, original San Diego team) I don't think it's easy finding four people from a particular season, especially the older ones.

[QUOTE=V1man;330956]Like or dislike him, Frank didn't draw an audience for the show. MTV knew that the San Diego season didn't attract and audience, so there should not have been any expectation that the season would produce any breakout stars capable of sustaining the Challenges. Ashley might be the one surprise exception, because not only is she good looking, she seems sufficiently capable. I think you are quite correct. Reality TV producers years ago thought they needed a villain whom people would enjoy hating. Frank didn't achieve that distinction in either of his seasons. Just the opposite reaction seems to be common among fans and the ratings appear to support such a view.[/QUOTE] Couldn't agree more. After the great Vegas 2 season, Frank and the rest of San Diego found a way to make part of the Real World audience go away. I've talked with both hardcore and casual viewers and the consensus is on one thing: Frank isn't the villain you watch and wan't to root against, he's the type of guy that makes you wan't to change the channel.

Why did they drop the D.C team and was Hollywood even asked?

Not sure about the DC season but for Hollywood I don't think they would have found two guys from the season willing to go on. [B]Joey[/B] - recovering addict at the time, wouldn't have been good for him to go & probably would have said no. [B]Brittini[/B] - Could have said yes; I haven't heard much about her recently [B]Nick[/B] - probably would have said yes [B]Dave[/B] - I don't think he's been asked (and probably not considered for one) since the Island [B]Greg[/B] - didn't attend the reunion and left on bad terms [B]Will[/B] - haven't heard much from him since the season [B]Sarah[/B] - moved on from reality tv [B]Kimberly[/B] - according to the vevmo thread about where they are now, Kimberly didn't have a good time on the Ruins and doesn't want to go back [B]Brianna[/B] - working on her music career, don't know if she would have said yes. In theory, Brittini and Brianna could have said yes, but I don't know if they would have gotten Nick and Will to come as well. Hollywood was my favorite season of the Real World, so believe me, I would have loved to see them on another challenge -- I think the Ruins was the last time they were represented. I just don't think it would have happened on this season.

This was the third consecutive "themed" challenge... Reasons why Rivals was better than Exes or Seasons: -CT flirting with Mandi and then Laurel -CT T-bones Johnny & Tyler Reasons why Exes was better than Rivals and Seasons: -Iceland was by far the coolest finale location switch of the three -Seeing the "X" battle dome -While none of the challenges were really awesome, none of them really sucked either and that's not true for Rivals or Seasons. -No stupid sleep deprivation in the final challenge. Reasons why Seasons was better than Rivals and Exes -No Robin and any storylines/drama about Robin -No Ty, and any drama concerning Ty, especially no bull**** racism stories from Ty -We got to see some drama within teams as they decide who goes in for the Arena, like with San Diego and Las Vegas. -Got to see a really great elimination in Knot So Fast that actually required teamwork unlike the all the other arenas/domes/jungles. -Although several challenges did suck, Don't Cross Me/Hook, Line & Sinker/Log Challenge/Abandon Ship were great challenges combining multiple skills and much better than any on Rivals and Exes. -No wasted time about CT/Diem's love story from years ago -Chet and the great comments Chet made. -The Awesome Hall Brawl between CJ and Zach -The love note from CJ To Ashley was one of the funniest moments in Challenge History. -Dustin Zito had some awesome lines in real time. Most great lines from the challenge are in interviews, Zito busted them out live. He was one of the best Challenge characters ever. -The least amount of Wes in the three challenges. -The least amount of psycho Jasmine -Ashley was by far the most attractive cast member of the last three seasons, and she lasted the whole challenge. -Marie Marie Marie -Frank and Zach hating on Sam was way better than Johnnie and Tyler being mean to the women. -NUMBER 1 REASON: we actually had a power shift on this challenge with Brooklyn and Vegas winning challenges and sending the mob in. Shame the ratings didn't agree with me. Seasons was awesome. And I was actually worried after seeing the cast list.

[QUOTE=gbp02;331116] -Frank and Zach hating on Sam was way better than Johnnie and Tyler being mean to the women. .[/QUOTE] how in the **** are you going to say that anything involving Frank deserves to be in the best "why this season was better" category? i'm sure almost everybody would rather have any JEK challenge drama with women much more than they would want Frank talking s*** about someone having an addiction problem or being a hypocritical ******* in any kind of drama he's in. I will not see the next season if Frank and Zach are on it and there is no real competition to take them out. I would seriously prefer Wes having 80% air time than Frank or zach.

[QUOTE=gbp02;331116] Reasons why Seasons was better than Rivals and Exes -No Robin and any storylines/drama about Robin[/quote] Robin was hardly the main center of attention in any of the challenges she's been on. [quote]-No Ty, and any drama concerning Ty, especially no bull**** racism stories from Ty[/quote] While I agree that he is annoying, I'm able to stand him more than Frank. [quote]-We got to see some drama within teams as they decide who goes in for the Arena, like with San Diego and Las Vegas.[/quote] True. [quote]-Got to see a really great elimination in Knot So Fast that actually required teamwork unlike the all the other arenas/domes/jungles.[/quote] All of the challenges except Hall Brawl required teamwork. [quote]-Although several challenges did suck, Don't Cross Me/Hook, Line & Sinker/Log Challenge/Abandon Ship were great challenges combining multiple skills and much better than any on Rivals and Exes.[/quote] Sort of true. [quote]-No wasted time about CT/Diem's love story from years ago[/quote] I, and I'm willing to bet a lot more people, would rather have any story that has to do with CT rather than Frank or Zach appearing on our screens. [quote]-Chet and the great comments Chet made.[/quote] True [quote]-The Awesome Hall Brawl between CJ and Zach[/quote] Great elimination, tied with Derrick vs Wes Duel I. [quote]-The love note from CJ To Ashley was one of the funniest moments in Challenge History.[/quote] Funny? That wasn't even remotely funny. You want to see funny? Go watch JEK and their interviews/drama. [quote]-Dustin Zito had some awesome lines in real time. Most great lines from the challenge are in interviews, Zito busted them out live. He was one of the best Challenge characters ever.[/quote] True [quote]-The least amount of Wes in the three challenges.[/quote] When Wes got eliminated I actually felt a little sad. I would much rather have him on my television than Frank's hypocritical ***. [quote]-The least amount of psycho Jasmine[/quote] Dude, have you even seen Frank and his psychoness? [quote]-Ashley was by far the most attractive cast member of the last three seasons, and she lasted the whole challenge.[/quote] Laurel > ashley [quote]-Marie Marie Marie[/quote] Too much hype surrounding her. Nany was more entertaining. [quote]-Frank and Zach hating on Sam was way better than Johnnie and Tyler being mean to the women.[/quote] Are you serious? Frank and Zach were hating on Sam on a whole nother level than anything Johnny or Tyler have done! Frank started talking s*** about her girlfriend and saying the most degrading things imaginable. Frank also pushed her like *** that just makes me want to find him in the streets and kick his ***. He and zach are the reasons why this season has done so poorly in the ratings department and I'm glad because that means BMP & MTV will actually do something to solve this. [quote]-NUMBER 1 REASON: we actually had a power shift on this challenge with Brooklyn and Vegas winning challenges and sending the mob in.[/quote] There was no power shift as San Diego never lost in an elimination round and won the whole thing. [quote]Shame the ratings didn't agree with me. Seasons was awesome. And I was actually worried after seeing the cast list.[/QUOTE] I'm glad the ratings don't agree with you because this season sucked donkey **** lol and I'm sure lots of people would agree with me on that one. The way the season was structured challenge-wise was awesome, the cast not so much. If Zach and Frank are on the next challenge, which they will most certainly be, we need some true vets. Not no quitters (Alton, Big Easy, Trishelle) and not no weaklings (Lacey, Jasmine, Brandon). We need at least 3 of the following for men and women: Darrell CT Johnny Kenny Evan Tyler Derrick Landon Brad Mark Long Dunbar Ace ----- Katie (For fun drama) Carlie Ruthie Aneesa Coral Jenn KellyAnne As for rookies we need some of these: Leroy Adam Royer (he would step up to Frank without a doubt lol) Isaac Cohutta Pete Noor Johnny (Portland) --- Laurel Theresa Carley LaToya Cooke Nia Moore (Portland) Joi (Portland) People I would want coming back that were on BOTS2 would be: Dustin Robb CJ Knight Trey Wes Chet --- Ashley Sarah Rice Marie Nany Laura McKenzie Camila Cara Maria Melinda

[QUOTE=V1man;330956]Like or dislike him, Frank didn't draw an audience for the show. MTV knew that the San Diego season didn't attract and audience, so there should not have been any expectation that the season would produce any breakout stars capable of sustaining the Challenges. Ashley might be the one surprise exception, because not only is she good looking, she seems sufficiently capable. I think you are quite correct. Reality TV producers years ago thought they needed a villain whom people would enjoy hating. Frank didn't achieve that distinction in either of his seasons. Just the opposite reaction seems to be common among fans and the ratings appear to support such a view.[/QUOTE] Well said. I totally agree with you for once. Frank is crying deep down inside somewhere

[QUOTE=gbp02;331116]This was the third consecutive "themed" challenge... Reasons why Rivals was better than Exes or Seasons: -CT flirting with Mandi and then Laurel -CT T-bones Johnny & Tyler Reasons why Exes was better than Rivals and Seasons: -Iceland was by far the coolest finale location switch of the three -Seeing the "X" battle dome -While none of the challenges were really awesome, none of them really sucked either and that's not true for Rivals or Seasons. -No stupid sleep deprivation in the final challenge. Reasons why Seasons was better than Rivals and Exes -No Robin and any storylines/drama about Robin -No Ty, and any drama concerning Ty, especially no bull**** racism stories from Ty -We got to see some drama within teams as they decide who goes in for the Arena, like with San Diego and Las Vegas. -Got to see a really great elimination in Knot So Fast that actually required teamwork unlike the all the other arenas/domes/jungles. -Although several challenges did suck, Don't Cross Me/Hook, Line & Sinker/Log Challenge/Abandon Ship were great challenges combining multiple skills and much better than any on Rivals and Exes. -No wasted time about CT/Diem's love story from years ago -Chet and the great comments Chet made. -The Awesome Hall Brawl between CJ and Zach -The love note from CJ To Ashley was one of the funniest moments in Challenge History. -Dustin Zito had some awesome lines in real time. Most great lines from the challenge are in interviews, Zito busted them out live. He was one of the best Challenge characters ever. -The least amount of Wes in the three challenges. -The least amount of psycho Jasmine -Ashley was by far the most attractive cast member of the last three seasons, and she lasted the whole challenge. -Marie Marie Marie -Frank and Zach hating on Sam was way better than Johnnie and Tyler being mean to the women. -NUMBER 1 REASON: we actually had a power shift on this challenge with Brooklyn and Vegas winning challenges and sending the mob in. Shame the ratings didn't agree with me. Seasons was awesome. And I was actually worried after seeing the cast list.[/QUOTE] Your credibility just went out the window. I love both Ty and Robin. CB I wouldve been glad for a SD 1 team and

DC team. RR not so much

Why is everyone trying to argue their opinion as fact? Different people are going to find different things entertaining.

[QUOTE=Edwin;330985]Couldn't agree more. After the great Vegas 2 season, Frank and the rest of San Diego found a way to make part of the Real World audience go away. I've talked with both hardcore and casual viewers and the consensus is on one thing: Frank isn't the villain you watch and wan't to root against, he's the type of guy that makes you wan't to change the channel.[/QUOTE] I like how people Frank is so hated but Yet JEK is so liked. Despite them being 10 times worse.(I know everyone doesn't like them but they do have a fanbase.)

[QUOTE=Debut Album;331172]I like how people Frank is so hated but Yet JEK is so liked. Despite them being 10 times worse.(I know everyone doesn't like them but they do have a fanbase.)[/QUOTE] What have they done that's so bad, aside from the Tonya allegations. Johnny hasn't been shown saying hardly anything offensive since the ruins, and Kenny and Evan just mess with people really ever done anything bad or at least not as bad as what Frank has done. Frank made fun of a girl because her sister did heroin, not to mention he's a complete camera *****. Not to say that he's a bad character but I don't know how you can say there 10X worse except for the fact that you just hate them.

[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;331173]What have they done that's so bad, aside from the Tonya allegations. Johnny hasn't been shown saying hardly anything offensive since the ruins, and Kenny and Evan just mess with people really ever done anything bad or at least not as bad as what Frank has done. Frank made fun of a girl because her sister did heroin, not to mention he's a complete camera *****. Not to say that he's a bad character but I don't know how you can say there 10X worse except for the fact that you just hate them.[/QUOTE] Don't waste your time, it doesn't matter if kenny or Evan are angels or jerks he hates them just because they come from fresh meat.

JEK apparently don't take their beefs outside of the show, there are interviews of people who have been thrown under the bus by them, like Katie, Anessa, Davis, who have said that they are good people and that they got along pretty well, in fact there are pictures after the ruins of Evan and katie hanging out in las Vegas and pictures of Evan. Kenny and Wes hanging out after Fresh meat. They are no saints and sometimes they are offensives but you can compare the twiters account of JEK and Frank / Zach and the comments made by these two are horrible and disgusting

[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;331173]What have they done that's so bad, aside from the Tonya allegations...[/QUOTE] What else need there be? If they were to return, then MTV would be forever tarnished beyond redemption.

To be honest I see them returning. Even though, they didnt cast them MTV have used both of them for this season of the challenge: 1. Evan did the online after-shows with Paula. 2. Kenny did the webcam stuff with Ruthie,Laurel, and CT. If I am not wrong he was the online after-shows host for Jersey Shore.