[quote=MrsPlumBean;84232]Okay, but here's the thing--why? Why would production want Brad to win over Landon? I just don't see a reason compelling enough to take on the enormous legal risk of interfering with a gameshow. Sure, Brad's a fan favorite, but so is Landon. If production had really wanted Brad in the finals, it would have been much easier to simply make the person who won the second-to-last duel immune for the last one. If they were caught tampering with an elimination game and it could be proved, they would be done. It just doesn't make sense. No matter how much people might personally want a cast member to win (though there is no real reason to believe this is the case), they're not going to want it so badly that they would risk their careers over it!
I think Brad beat Landon the same way Kim beat Ruthie--he outsmarted him in a crucial moment, which allowed him to take the third round. And while I rewatched it and did note that Brad sort of clung to Landon in the third round after Landon got his hook, I think if Landon had done the same thing to Brad in round one, that would have been let go. What Landon actually did was pick Brad physically up off the ground and move him away from the ring, backwards from where he had been standing. I think there's a difference between hindering someone's motion towards their ring and grabbing them once they've reached their ring and trying to throw them backwards.
I'm not sure what word she were going for, but I don't think you meant "discard." Discard means to throw something away.[/quote]
With that logic though, the question of double standards rise. Why was Aneesa allowed to punch Shauvon in the face and not get DQ'd but Landon wrestling with Brad in the circle is a definite DQ? "Once you get the hook, you must go for the ring" - if that is the rules, then round one and three along with knocking Landon's ring in the air (obviously not going for your own) should be looked into - and it wasn't. Some cry fair, others cry foul and there is no resolution. Brad won, its over with. I suggest let's not beat a dead horse anymore than we already have.
As bothered as I was with the results, there is no changing it and I am going to take my own advice. I am now going to say goodbye to this Finale Discussion thread and look forward to the future of The Ruins :).
Wow LCbaby I am on the exact same wavelength as you. First off I made an account here a long time ago and never log in, but I just had too respond after reading your posts. I agree completely with almost everything you said 100%.
While it may not have been a rigid duel for Brad to win nesesarily, I think it became a confusing moment for production and everyone involved during the Brad/Landon duel. First, it's hard to regulate exactly what physical contact should result in a DQ because of the way the duel is set up to be. You are supposed to hit people and get nasty which is what is the way production wanted that duel to be like. However when Brad grabbed Landon's ring I think that's when things got a little shady. I don't think production was expecting anyone to grab the rings in that manner and with everyone in the stands screaming, along with Brad himself screaming he won, I think production just went along with the flow and made no call. I could be dead wrong but that's the way it felt like to me.
As for Landon, I felt absolutely terrible when he was saw his name written three times, going "me, me, me". He was clearly a step above the others in these challenges. If you rewatch the duel Landon was throwing Brad around like a rag doll and working him. Brad screaming and trying to look tough really ****** me off, others will disagree, but seriously in my mind Brad gets by on his looks and his chill personality. His abilities on these challenges is ok, good but not great. LCbaby is dead on, Brad is just not good enough to be looked at as a person that everytime he comes on these that he can win.
I tried to bring things up not discusses yet as I could of ranted forever but LC covered most of what I wanted to say. Landon's loss seriously dissapointed me because production should of stepped in and went against the grain and told Brad he was DQ'd in that last round. They just let it happen because of Brad's emotion and everyone in the crowd jumping up and down. If Landon has moved on sincerely then I will too, but until it's addressed at the reunion or by one of the mods, I will continue to support that Brad is not athletic or strong enough to get this kind of treatment on the challenges.
The not so small issue of production "fixing" the result is that it would be a Federal crime. How can our members overlook that reality? I don't know anyone who wants to go to Federal prison over a reality show. Do you?
I said and believe that production didn't fix it. I just said they probably weren't expecting Brad to flip the ring. Either way it should of been a DQ if Landon's first round was a DQ.
Why DQ someone in round 3? That'd be like giving a penalty shot to a team in the last minute of play in a tied game 7. For such an intense elimination round, that'd be a very anticlimactic ending.
[quote=molds13;84250]Why DQ someone in round 3? That'd be like giving a penalty shot to a team in the last minute of play in a tied game 7. For such an intense elimination round, that'd be a very anticlimactic ending.[/quote]
I am sure whatever the outcome, it would be a bit more climactic than Diem losing Push Over round three to Brittini for her foot grazing the sand.
Molds, thats exactly why I think they didn't do anything. Too much emotion was thrown around for them to come in. However I believe Landon got screwed and that's kinda where my anger comes in.
I rationalized the fact that production was unprepared because of past information and previous Back Off duels. Rules kept changing as the game went along as they tried to regulate fair and more interesting play. If someone had tried to throw the ring up in a previous duel would they have entered that into the rules as well? Aneesa gets to punch Shauvon, Ruthie gets to headlock Kim, but Landon can't get wrestle Brad away? I know it's not the same, but the fact is they acted because Landon was actually getting somewhere and was clearly going to manhandle Brad the rest of the way if allowed to pick him up. But, what is Landon supposed to do, they were right under the ring he has to try to move Brad away. He wasn't punching, biting, or anything under those lines so I think it should of been allowed. But we know these duel show's rules aren't the greatest and a lot of different criteria for it be fair so who knows about that one.
[QUOTE=LCbaby;84255]I am sure whatever the outcome, it would be a bit more climactic than Diem losing Push Over round three to Brittini for her foot grazing the sand.[/QUOTE]
Hey, her foot touched the ground. That was pretty much the [I]only[/I] rule of that Duel. That was flat out broken. In terms of the Landon-Brad Duel, it could be argued until the cows come home what, if any, rules were broken.
That's the problem...the rules weren't made with much thought if any. They probably thought to themselves, let's get a duel where CT can go in and beat the shit out of Evan for us and the fans. I know! Back Off! Of course im just kidding about the names and I hope no one takes offense to it but hopefully you get what I'm saying
[QUOTE=Dodgers4Life;84268][B]That's the problem...the rules weren't made with much thought if any. They probably thought to themselves, let's get a duel where[/B] CT can go in and beat the shit out of Evan for us and the fans. I know! Back Off! Of course im just kidding about the names and I hope no one takes offense to it but hopefully you get what I'm saying[/QUOTE]
How do you know this? You don't!
Are you aware that there are requirements in The Game Show Act for contests (where the FCC is the regulatory body) in which prizes are awarded? Are you aware that Tj and the producers detail the rules off camera before the missions/duels begin. There frequently are many cast questions.
All networks/contractors/production companies under Viacom control or contract must follow the written show guidelines from the lawyers in the "Standards and Practices" office.
I'm sorry to say this, but people who are opining about Brad v. Landon appear a little foolish here because the speculation is based on edited video. I suggest that people reach out to someone in the cast who was there before deciding that you know something.
My initial thought was that Brad did cheat and it was a no call, but in viewing the scene again you can see he goes for Landon's ring in round 2 as well. Landon never complains about this as far as we know, just about the fact that he had a chance to win, but screws up actually clasping the ring. Also they probably went over any additional rules off camera, and could have even asked if certain things were allowed and other not, the fact is we don't know though, and if Landon isn't complaining (maybe he will on the after show??) then it seems okay.
The bigger issue to me that is getting little mention is that they had to be paired with the opposite ***, which as an individual challenge, guys vs guys, girls vs girls, it was very unfair. It's surprising that Evan caught up to Brad to beat him, but clearly would've blown him away if not for this.
I see Brad hitting the ring as very similar to Kim luring Ruthie under Kim's ring. It's a way to out-strategize the other person that isn't against the rules. If there had been another back-off duel, maybe they would have adjusted the rules against touching an opponent's ring the way they revised the rule to start in the circle. But at that time, the rule didn't exist, and Brad took advantage of it. I actually like Landon quite a bit, but I give Brad credit for some quick thinking.
[quote=MrsPlumBean;84333]I see Brad hitting the ring as very similar to Kim luring Ruthie under Kim's ring. It's a way to out-strategize the other person that isn't against the rules. If there had been another back-off duel, maybe they would have adjusted the rules against touching an opponent's ring the way they revised the rule to start in the circle. But at that time, the rule didn't exist, and Brad took advantage of it. I actually like Landon quite a bit, but I give Brad credit for some quick thinking.[/quote]
I agree. Isn't that why they added the circle on the ground in the middle of the season?
I just wanted to say that I agree with pretty much everything that MrsPlumBean says. Most of the other stuff that is being said about this Brad/Landon duel seems kind of silly and over the top.
[QUOTE=OutWestSoon;84347]At what point did Landon get injured? Does BMP pay for the surgery? Why did they edit it out?[/QUOTE]
1. We don't precisely know. No one who was present has talked about it in that level of detail.
2. No, the cast contract requires only that the company provide immediate emergency medical care. Medical costs are the responsibility of the cast member. If I recall correctly, there is a requirement that cast members secure their own insurance.
3. Why is always the unanswered question. My guess: It would have been a tremendous distraction when the principle storyline of the episode was the final mission.
BMP is not creating a documentary. They are telling what they think is the best story given the available video.
[quote=MrsPlumBean;84333]I see Brad hitting the ring as very similar to Kim luring Ruthie under Kim's ring. It's a way to out-strategize the other person that isn't against the rules.[/quote]
Exactly! Brad just did something that no one else in that particular duel had done before. It wasn't cheating, it was a trick move, and a good one!
Has anyone even thought of the fact that editing could have played a role in this? I mean, we don't even know if all those shots we were shown in the episode were in sequence or not. Period.
I'm tired of reading all these "Oh, Landon destroyed Brad, so Brad shouldn't have been at the end." or "The production planned it so Landon would lose, just so Brad would have a storyline, like what happened with CT." Can't we all just accept that that is what happened and there is nothing we can do about it.
I think a better way to have done the back-off challenge was to simply have one hook, that way both competitors would be equal distance from the ring at all times, for the most part. And there would not have been as much wrestling because you were closer to one person's hook then the other. But the way they did it, did provide for some exciting moments and finishes so it was not that bad.
Does anybody have an estimate on how big (height and weight) the competitors are, On the first episode they refer to CT as being 240 lbs. But I was wondering If anybody had a good estimate as to How big some of the People on the show really are.
I think it was said that the challengers are smaller than they appear on TV. I think Brad is around 200 lbs and on G3 it was said that Eric was around 280 lbs.
[B]CORRECTING THE RECORD (again)
[/B]
It time for V1man to eat some well seasoned crow, baked at 375 degrees F for 45 minutes...
A few things about the last episode have been bugging me. The question I was asked above about why BMP would not show the injuried to Landon and Brad kept nagging at me all week and I just couldn't figure out the answer.
Now I know. Sometimes people near to the show communicate with me through the shorthand of text messaging (max of 160 characters). That is what happened right after the Duel II finished shooting in NZ. Several weeks ago I contacted that initial source and asked for an additional explanation of the first report, that Landon had been injured and that was why he lost to Brad. The follow-up response led me to concluded that Landon was not injured until the duel with Brad. While I now have separately confirmed that to be essentially true through another source, I discovered there was more to the story.
Both Diem and Landon were injured during their final duels, but neither one noticed it or gave any indication of it until they were all back at the challenge house -- after the adrenaline wore off perhaps . It was not until the next day that Diem's injury was fully diagnosed and her ankle placed in a cast. Why Landon didn't outwardly manifest any symptoms during the duel is anyone's guess.
Not only are first reports sometimes incomplete, but even second sources don't always tell you the complete picture. In putting the two together, one can still be wrong. BMP didn't leave out anything essential from either duel, but they may have understated the weather conditions during the Diem/Brinnini matchup.
Anyone have a suggestion as to what goes well with crow?
I'm happy with the way the episode was edited/aired. V1, I noticed that Landon didn't show any signs of being injured during his duel like you said. But I saw his arm after the duel and it looked wierd as if it were about to fall off. Did Diem injure herself during her duel with Britt?
[QUOTE=blanky667;84432]I'm happy with the way the episode was edited/aired. V1, I noticed that Landon didn't show any signs of being injured during his duel like you said. But I saw his arm after the duel and it looked wierd as if it were about to fall off. [B]Did Diem injure herself during her duel with Britt?[/B][/QUOTE]
Read immediately above: [B]"Both Diem and Landon were injured during their final duels..."[/B]
The final episode wasn't bad.
I think the Landon vs. Brad Duel was intense. Brad was incredibly smart in his final move, but the point given to him was kind of messed up, but that's besides the point.
I love Brittini and wanted her at the end, but actually felt bad for Diem.
And Mark is amazing. Oh and Yay Rachel!
[quote=V1man;84426][B]CORRECTING THE RECORD (again)
[/B]
It time for V1man to eat some well seasoned crow, baked at 375 degrees F for 45 minutes...
A few things about the last episode have been bugging me. The question I was asked above about why BMP would not show the injuried to Landon and Brad kept nagging at me all week and I just couldn't figure out the answer.
Now I know. Sometimes people near to the show communicate with me through the shorthand of text messaging (max of 160 characters). That is what happened right after the Duel II finished shooting in NZ. Several weeks ago I contacted that initial source and asked for an additional explanation of the first report, that Landon had been injured and that was why he lost to Brad. The follow-up response led me to concluded that Landon was not injured until the duel with Brad. While I now have separately confirmed that to be essentially true through another source, I discovered there was more to the story.
Both Diem and Landon were injured during their final duels, but neither one noticed it or gave any indication of it until they were all back at the challenge house -- after the adrenaline wore off perhaps . It was not until the next day that Diem's injury was fully diagnosed and her ankle placed in a cast. Why Landon didn't outwardly manifest any symptoms during the duel is anyone's guess.
Not only are first reports sometimes incomplete, but even second sources don't always tell you the complete picture. In putting the two together, one can still be wrong. BMP didn't leave out anything essential from either duel, but they may have understated the weather conditions during the Diem/Brinnini matchup.
Anyone have a suggestion as to what goes well with crow?[/quote]
I think you can be spared the crow on this one. You did say they were injured during their duels, and they were. I wondered if perhaps the reason the injuries weren't shown was because got injured and didn't know it until later, so it's not too surprising that is what happened to Landon and Diem. I agree about the adrenaline guess. Didn't Nick also not know his hand was broken until later as well (or am I remembering that wrong)?
[quote=V1man;84426][B]CORRECTING THE RECORD (again)[/B]
It time for V1man to eat some well seasoned crow, baked at 375 degrees F for 45 minutes...
A few things about the last episode have been bugging me. The question I was asked above about why BMP would not show the injuried to Landon and Brad kept nagging at me all week and I just couldn't figure out the answer.
Now I know. Sometimes people near to the show communicate with me through the shorthand of text messaging (max of 160 characters). That is what happened right after the Duel II finished shooting in NZ. Several weeks ago I contacted that initial source and asked for an additional explanation of the first report, that Landon had been injured and that was why he lost to Brad. The follow-up response led me to concluded that Landon was not injured until the duel with Brad. While I now have separately confirmed that to be essentially true through another source, I discovered there was more to the story.
Both Diem and Landon were injured during their final duels, but neither one noticed it or gave any indication of it until they were all back at the challenge house -- after the adrenaline wore off perhaps . It was not until the next day that Diem's injury was fully diagnosed and her ankle placed in a cast. Why Landon didn't outwardly manifest any symptoms during the duel is anyone's guess.
Not only are first reports sometimes incomplete, but even second sources don't always tell you the complete picture. In putting the two together, one can still be wrong. BMP didn't leave out anything essential from either duel, but they may have understated the weather conditions during the Diem/Brinnini matchup.
[B]Anyone have a suggestion as to what goes well with crow?[/B][/quote]
I am a firm believer that everything can be paired well with a nice glass of wine. Or bottle. Or two.
[quote=Darock1713;83801]Brad "broke" the rules by not going for the opponent's ring, the same violation that Landon was penalized for. However, imo, that is not as relevant as Landon not being to attach his hook to the ring while Brad runs a considerable distance and attach his hook to the ring. So yes, i contend that this duel was "fixed" and perhaps due to Landon's injury.
Nevertheless, he clearly manhandled Brad in all 3 rounds, and after watching the dallies, TJ blew the horn signaling Landon had won, while Brad was supposedly making a miracoulous hook attachment.
I'm glad Evan won because Brad should not have been there, and Mark isn't as strong as people alleged him to be. He barely beat Rachel to the first checkpoint.
As for Mr. Lueck (msp)........... he has officially gained my respect as the best competitor in the history of these challenges. I truly believe he could take down a CT, Wes, or Alton and perhaps the Miz in just about any elimination type activity.[/quote]
That's a tough call, I love Landon, he's my favorite player in challenge history for the guys but i think Alton could give him the best run for his money since they are a similar build and are both climbers and i think equally athletic. Landon vs Alton in a Pole Climb, Capture the Flag or Spot on would be insane.
[QUOTE]That's a tough call, I love Landon, he's my favorite player in challenge history for the guys but i think Alton could give him the best run for his money since they are a similar build and are both climbers and i think equally athletic. Landon vs Alton in a Pole Climb, Capture the Flag or Spot on would be insane. [/QUOTE]
I think Landon named Alton as the toughest competitor he's seen on the Challenges, and I agree. Actually, I'd call it a toss-up between the two. Kempoleo, I think any challenge where they went head to head would be insane. :) I'd love to see it, only I wouldn't know who to root for. I don't see any other male castmember being a stronger all-around athlete. However, a [I]smarter[/I] athelete and strategist, such as Mark or NO Jamie, could give them a run for their money in an overall competition (rather than just one event), IMO.
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