Fresh Meat II - Ratings

Very good post Bacchus, you certainly make a lot of points. I'm inclined to think that Fresh Meat could have worked. The first show of the Real World franchise I watched was Battle of the Sexes. At the time, I got hooked on a show that consisted of 36 nobodies. I think throwing in 12 or 13 nobodies could have worked, but MTV didn't play its cards right. I think the biggest problem with the challenges is the lack of consistancy. Every challenge is different in one way or another. What used to be Real World vs. Road Rules is now Rookies vs. Veterans. We used to have a score board, now we don't always get to see the final times of individual heats. The are small changes each season, but they add up. I'm really not surprised people aren't getting hooked on Fresh Meat like they got hooked on Battle of the Sexes. I also understand why you think Las Vegas was the beginning of the end for the Real World, but they have had plenty of successful seasons since. San Diego, Austin, Hollywood, Brooklyn. I've seen a few of the older seasons, and I like them just as much as the older ones. However, with Las Vegas is seems like they threw away their long term plans for short term success. They had a formula that worked, but they took risks which are not paying off any more. I just hope the series can recover. As much as I bash the shows, I love them and will always watch them. They just need to find a new formula that works, and it seems like time is running out. Here's a question I've been wondering... does anyone have an idea of how Road Rules Xtreme did in terms of ratings? I went on Media Life Magazine, but found no helpful results.

[QUOTE=CharR;181698] I actually think the show COULD be (relatively) successful if it found a home on a different network, because the numbers it pulls would still be considered a success by other cable networks. [/QUOTE] The show would be considered successful if it was pulling these ratings on MTV at 9PM. Well, sort of. When MTV reaired each challenge episode (literally) 15 times in a week, they were making extra money off of each episode by showing ads in all those extra airings. With MTV reducing the challenge to 3 airings a week, that just makes the first airing all the more important. The Challenge is, however, still whipping True Life in the ratings, and Friday nights are so bad for MTV that they don't even release the numbers. This week The Challenge will be MTV's second highest rated hour of original programming after The Hills, as it was last week, and as it will be again next week. However, next to 16+Pregnant, Jersey Shore and Teen Mom, the demo ratings are literally 1/5th of what those shows get. Most TV show contracts are written with a buyout option where the network can cancel the show by paying the producers a set sum of money that approximately equals the producers profits. Some contracts also can be cancelled with no payout if their ratings drop below a certain level. Just throwing that out there.

Good point, the challenge is still somewhat of a successful hour for MTV, BUT it also costs WAY more to produce than most of their other shows. I think therein lies the problem. It's not pulling it's weight in the money its bringing in relative to how much money it costs to make. Also regarding the contracts, the contract is up after, I think, the next Real World and the next Challenge. So they don't even have to buy out the contract, they can just not renew it. Which makes the ratings for FM2, the Spring Challenge and RW B2NO SO important and so far it's not looking great. Or even good.

[QUOTE=RW/RRAddict;180995]Also, they should probably film in in the spring or summer in a hot location because obviously seeing the castmates wearing close to nothing is a lot more enticing than seeing them wearing sweaters in the cold Canadian weather.[/QUOTE] Just wanted to point out that this would absolutely increase ratings.

[QUOTE=Xeri99;181886]Just wanted to point out that this would absolutely increase ratings.[/QUOTE] Exactly. On BOTS1 and Inferno 1, the castmembers were frequently seen in their bathing suits. BOTS1 was in Montego Bay, Jamaica and Inferno 1 was in Acapulco, Mexico.

[QUOTE=Bacchus;181370]No matter how extreme, if you don't care about the participants you are probably not going to watch... Honestly, I think FM2 is a fine series but nothing special, although I do feel the introduction of Fresh Meat was the death of the series and this incarnation is somewhat a reflection of that. MTV broke away from the core formula and the downward spiral took hold. Sure, it could be argued that this is just a natural progression of the series (dying a slow death) but I've always stated (and believe) that it was the dilution of the cast that was the death knell of The Challenge (which in effect also tarnished The Real World brand.) MTV basically ****** off the core audience (i.e. those that had been watching for years, by no longer bringing aboard their favorite cast members and instead replacing them with randoms) and then got a cold shoulder from the younger audience who would rather, for the most part, watch fauxality shows like The Hills - because oddly enough, they seem more "real." If they would have kept their shows relevant (mainly The Real World being that is the anchor, but Road Rules as well) they would still be in the game, but rather they joined the "race to the bottom" and instead of series about living with AIDS, or race relations or a group of people being challenged together, we got a continuous dorm party filled in by (many) moments of sheer boredom, a cancelled show and a Challenge that has more people who never participated in the original shows in the first place than actual legacy cast members. For instance, I would not have to read anything about New Orleans 2, to guess (you guys can call me Nouveau-Nostradamus later...) there will be drunken fights and someone will hook up with another roommate, but they won't get along later and then roommate A and B will get into a confrontation and, Oh...Noooo! Someone might be leaving the house! And so forth and so on... It is like Hell's Kitchen, but even more predictable (Oh my, is Chef Ramsey going to throw someone out of the kitchen? OH S***! HE DID NOT!) Anyway, they can probably salvage the show if they get rid of the entire production team and bring in some new talent that is willing to take all the preconceived notions off the board and rebuild the series from the ground up. As they say in the movie industry, it needs to be rebooted. Beyond that, The Real World and The Challenge series are Dead Shows Walking... [B]Edit:[/B] I just wanted to mention that I agree with those that have messaged me about Vegas. It [I]was[/I] the begining of the end (in hindsight.) Of course, it was novel programing at the time and very highly rated. Had the show continued to transform and continued to provide engaging programming, it would be in solid shape today. Instead they took Vegas as the casting mold and built just about every subsequent season after Vegas, with an unchanging blueprint which did not stay current nor innovative (Say what you want, but having a reality show in a Casino at the time was quite innovative for the genre.) The difference, in my opinion between Vegas and Fresh Meat is that Vegas was water cooler television and it was culturally relevant. Fresh Meat, was the end. The end in that it was neither relevant nor consistent with the core of the series, which was to see our favorite Real World and Road Rules cast members battling it out. It forever changed the series and decimated the brand, which leads us to the ratings we see today.[/QUOTE] This sums it up perfectly. This is one of the best posts on this board.

Well said Bacchus, no wonder your a g-d.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;181943]This sums it up perfectly. This is one of the best posts on this board.[/QUOTE] Funny, I've always felt nearly exactly the opposite. I rarely watch The Real World but always watch every challenge, and I honestly could almost care less who shows up. What's declined for me is the action. It seems that increasingly on challenges since The Island the quality and frequency of the challenges - the actual physical competitions - has gone downhill and the spend less time showing them and more time on petty garbage. The show used to thrill me and get me out of my chair every week; honestly FMII hasn't done that once (although The Ruins did it pretty frequently). The show was also just plain old FUN when they let the cast do whatever they wanted: cell phones, trips out, dating locals, bringing children. Hilarity often ensued. Why on earth they stopped that, I'll never know. I honestly don't even see their viewpoint. Who exactly do you thing would improve ratings if they were back? Veronica? Timmy? Beth? Sean Duffy? Gauntlet 1 Sarah? This is an honest question, I'm quite curious. It's tough to pin the retirements (Miz et al) on BMP, but as for the people who weren't asked back, I'd be curious.

Well, i could be considered a newbie because i began watching the real world in the Denver season, and the challenge in The Gauntlet 2 season. But those were the seasons that glued me to the entire series. Most of you guys began watching since the beginning or really early. thats why it has changed for you all. And i agree, that is why both series lost a majority of its veteran viewers, but time has changed, and so do shows. I mean, take pokemon for example. In the beginning the pokemon were cute and original, but now they're all robot looking. That is because the viewers are different from the ones in 1995. My point is: time has changed, and so did the rwrr challenge. But it was BMP's fault for creating the Fresh meat series. I really hope bmp gets it together before its too late.

[QUOTE=RWRRdude;182066]Well, i could be considered a newbie because i began watching the real world in the Denver season, and the challenge in The Gauntlet 2 season. But those were the seasons that glued me to the entire series. Most of you guys began watching since the beginning or really early. thats why it has changed for you all. And i agree, that is why both series lost a majority of its veteran viewers, but time has changed, and so do shows.[B] I mean, take pokemon for example. In the [/B][B]beginning the pokemon were cute and original, but now they're all robot [/B][B]looking.[/B] That is because the viewers are different from the ones in 1995. My point is: time has changed, and so did the rwrr challenge. But it was BMP's fault for creating the Fresh meat series. I really hope bmp gets it together before its too late.[/QUOTE] Pikachu FTW yo !!

[QUOTE=RWRRdude;182066]Well, i could be considered a newbie because i began watching the real world in the Denver season, and the challenge in The Gauntlet 2 season. But those were the seasons that glued me to the entire series. Most of you guys began watching since the beginning or really early. thats why it has changed for you all. And i agree, that is why both series lost a majority of its veteran viewers, but time has changed, and so do shows. [B]I mean, take pokemon for example. In the beginning the pokemon were cute and original, but now they're all robot looking. That is because the viewers are different from the ones in 1995.[/B] My point is: time has changed, and so did the rwrr challenge. But it was BMP's fault for creating the Fresh meat series. I really hope bmp gets it together before its too late.[/QUOTE] Pokemon, eh? Man, you really are showing your age.

I honestly don't think bringing back the old veterans is really the problem. The new viewers don't even know the Miz (at least as a challenger, they know him as a wrester), Abram, Alton, Tina, Julie etc. There are some old schoolers they would know (Coral, Veronica, Katie, Tonya for example) but they wouldn't necessarily be invested in them the same way that those of us that have been around forever are. To get new/younger viewers they have to be able to be invested in the NEW challengers. And for whatever reason, they're not. Is it the editing, the personalities, the "acting" for the cameras, the "storylines"? Or a combination of all the above? For whatever reason, they shifted away from their original formula and it's no longer working. Now, I'm not sure even a return to the older cast, or older style could save it... if it's been irreparably damaged either in reputation or in personalities. I hope not but I'm just not sure. I say all that, but, I still watch. I still look forward to the new challenges. But I go back and watch the old challenges and I know that the version that's on now is a pale comparison.

You know what would be cool? And I just suggested this to @BunimMurray over Twitter - even though I'm sure they probably won't answer, they should get a list of people who would like to be on the next challenge and have people vote for who should be on the next challenge. It worked pretty well for RW Hollywood, it could work very well for the next challenge - if there was one.

[QUOTE=CharR;182245] To get new/younger viewers they have to be able to be invested in the NEW challengers. And for whatever reason, they're not. Is it the editing, the personalities, the "acting" for the cameras, the "storylines"? Or a combination of all the above? For whatever reason, they shifted away from their original formula and it's no longer working. Now, I'm not sure even a return to the older cast, or older style could save it... if it's been irreparably damaged either in reputation or in personalities. I hope not but I'm just not sure. I say all that, but, I still watch. I still look forward to the new challenges. But I go back and watch the old challenges and I know that the version that's on now is a pale comparison.[/QUOTE] The challenges haven't changed much, but most of us have a "been there, seen that" feeling now because we've been seeing it for years. I maintain that the Challenge's problem (ratings-wise) is its association with "the Real World", which itself has suffered a staggering reputation loss when they shifted from telling engaging stories of people coming together from different backgrounds, and turned it into a frat party. There are a ton of shows out there like that now, and kids are pretty much always going to watch the "newer, hipper" versions of reality shows over anything their parents watched or that they consider old-fashioned. In this case, the longevity of the show is hurting it I believe.

So what would you prefer they do if they eliminate the Real World aspect?

[QUOTE=Entropy;182559]So what would you prefer they do if they eliminate the Real World aspect?[/QUOTE] Eliminate the Real World aspect...like renaming the show to "The Challenge"? Cus that's done.

[QUOTE=molds13;182106]Pokemon, eh? Man, you really are showing your age.[/QUOTE] Hey, there isn't anything wrong with liking Pokemon. I've been a fan of it since it came out and I was 9. I still think it's pretty cool. Of course I can't help it since I'm Asian and all.

No one else has posted these, so... [B][U]Episode 9 Ratings[/U][/B] Real World Road Rules Challenge - 1.114 million viewers - 0.8/1 HH - 0.7/2 A18-49 Up from last week...

Yay! At least it's up, if it's not good.

[QUOTE=CastAStone;182034]Funny, I've always felt nearly exactly the opposite. I rarely watch The Real World but always watch every challenge, and I honestly could almost care less who shows up. What's declined for me is the action. It seems that increasingly on challenges since The Island the quality and frequency of the challenges - the actual physical competitions - has gone downhill and the spend less time showing them and more time on petty garbage. The show used to thrill me and get me out of my chair every week; honestly FMII hasn't done that once (although The Ruins did it pretty frequently). The show was also just plain old FUN when they let the cast do whatever they wanted: cell phones, trips out, dating locals, bringing children. Hilarity often ensued. Why on earth they stopped that, I'll never know. I honestly don't even see their viewpoint. Who exactly do you thing would improve ratings if they were back? Veronica? Timmy? Beth? Sean Duffy? Gauntlet 1 Sarah? This is an honest question, I'm quite curious. It's tough to pin the retirements (Miz et al) on BMP, but as for the people who weren't asked back, I'd be curious.[/QUOTE] I agree with you on the whole fun aspect. That was a huge part of the early challenges. And you do have a point on the older castmembers. not only do the people that watch it now aren't who they are but I think most of them have moved on. So I think that they need to start making these things less predictable. I mean what's the point of even watching it when you just know that John, Kenny, and/or Evan will win? And I also think that BMP needs to start better casting. Yes I know alot of the older(and some of the newer) castmembers have moved on but I want to see someone other than THe Jerk Alliance and their Idoiot friends who just hand over the money to them.

[QUOTE=CastAStone;182675]No one else has posted these, so... [B][U]Episode 9 Ratings[/U][/B] Real World Road Rules Challenge - 1.114 million viewers - 0.8/1 HH - 0.7/2 A18-49 Up from last week...[/QUOTE] Thanks for posting. I was wondering what they were this week. Good to see it's back over the million mark, at least.

Taking into account the DVR's and the online episodes. I think it really isn't that bad for a tv show in its 19th season.

[QUOTE=RMD1;182746]Taking into account the DVR's and the online episodes. I think it really isn't that bad for a tv show in its 19th season.[/QUOTE] Compare it to the other show in its 19th season: Law & Order (120 minutes) - 6.116 million viewers - 4.1/7 HH - 1.7/5 A18-49

That is also a Drama, not a reality show. And it is on MTV, not CBS like survivor or BB.

[QUOTE=RMD1;182756]That is also a Drama, not a reality show. And it is on MTV, not CBS like survivor or BB.[/QUOTE] But it's still in its 19th season and has managed to maintain a steady viewing average. The same can be said for Survivor. 20 seasons...still pulling 10M+ people in an episode. Just because it's on a different network doesn't mean it can't survive...shows like 16 and Pregnant are still pulling in more viewers than the challenges.

[QUOTE=RMD1;182746]Taking into account the DVR's and the online episodes. I think it really isn't that bad for a tv show in its 19th season.[/QUOTE] Yes, it is really bad.

[QUOTE=molds13;182754]Compare it to the other show in its 19th season: Law & Order (120 minutes) - 6.116 million viewers - 4.1/7 HH - 1.7/5 A18-49[/QUOTE] The only number that matters for renewal - seriously THE ONLY number that matters - is the A18-49 number ("the demo"). So that 6-1 ratio it looks like is really only a 2-1. On a broadcast network, anything less than a 2 spells doom. L&O got a reprieve because NBC was having trouble getting any shows above 2 and because it makes so much in syndication. For cable, it varies wildly by network. MTV's new programming M-Th at 10 ranges from 0.4 to 4.5. in the demo. When The Duel 2 was pulling 2s, it was at the top of MTVs heap. 16/preggers, teen mom, and jersey have pushed it down, and now its only regularly beating True Life. FMII could end up being an aberration. Personally its one of my least favorite seasons, which I think is 99% productions fault, because the dailies online are 15 times better than the show. Realistically season 20 needs to average a 1.5+ in the demo to have a chance at renewal. I am confident that that is still possible, and I'm excited to see if BMP has made some dramatic changes to the show to make it work better.

Anyone else see the irony in comparing the Challenge, unfavorably, to Law & Order... which has been canceled?!

[QUOTE=CharR;182854]Anyone else see the irony in comparing the Challenge, unfavorably, to Law & Order... which has been canceled?![/QUOTE] It's like looking into the future. :fear:

[QUOTE=CharR;182854]Anyone else see the irony in comparing the Challenge, unfavorably, to Law & Order... which has been canceled?![/QUOTE] Don't forget, you're comparing 19 seasons to 19 years. If the Challenges are still on in 10 years...then I'll see the irony.