Real World Las Vegas 2: Dustin Shows His Hand, Heather Folds

[QUOTE=wutzrenzi;245701]All this talk about gay4pay and I must say I think its possible. I don't think if one is involved in gay acts or sells their body for money they are gay. But Dustin still kept secrets, told lies even after outed, did things, and said things that were awfully suspicious. [B]So I believe he could be gay, but had this been anyone else and if they had act more mature, told the truth and never contradicted themselves I would def. think they are straight even though they were involved in gay acts[/B].[/QUOTE] Worth considering is the scene (may have been on the dailies) where he was upset that he never got to be the one to sit down and tell his story because of the internet. IMO he had every intention of doing it but got blind-sided by Queen Molds13's drone Army, and was just freaking out trying to gain control of the out of control situation.

[QUOTE=stellablue;245606]I just re-watched last night's episode and honestly, the way everyone treated Dustin just makes me physically ill. I have lost respect for every single one of them and I think that they are all spineless and disgusting and cruel. Dustin did not lie to anybody. So he didn't walk into the house on day 1 and announce "I did gay **** 5 years ago when my life was in chaos." So what??? He knew those people for maybe a month and he didn't owe them anything....and he certainly did not lie. I don't condone his past, but I don't judge it either and I can see how a person in a tragic past like his could get involved into a decision like that. But whatever, he did not commit a crime, he didn't hurt anyone, so why treat him like he is a leper?? & honestly, I would feel 100% more safe living with Dustin than living with Adam. Adam has a seedy past of drugs, violence, and crime. He almost punched Nany's face in and destroyed their house multiple times without remorse and they are concerned and so judgmental toward what Dustin did 5 years ago-really????? & here is Dustin-feeling so humiliated and scared about revealing this secret and they gang up on him and offer zero support. They should all be so disgusted and embarrassed for how they treated their so-called friend. & Mike is just a pathetic idiot who needs to get over himself. The only one I had respect for in that episode was Dustin. He handled himself with integrity and dignity. & he handled those pieces of $h!+ roommates like a man. & he had nothing to apologize for (maybe to Heather, but that's all) & did I see that next week's episode shows Heather and Nany making out? Um, hello-hippocrites?? I wonder how much MONEY the two girls got PAID for that episode??? & the nerve that they call themselves straight girls~they lied. Think everyone will gang up on them and make them feel like pieces of dirt? Think Mike will suggest they move out?? Doubtful :( I hope the other cast members watched that episode and felt so ashamed of their behavior.[/QUOTE] After reading all this and all the other comments and seeing the word "homophobe, homophobic and homophobia" some 1000 times in the past 40 pages, all I have to say is.... Still don't like Dustin. Maybe to an extent, most of them were wrong in this episode, but I really don't see LeRoy's wrong. I admire that even though he grew up with 'gay' having a negative connotation behind it and he is afraid of being judged, he still reached out to Dustin. Dustin was a big drama queen in this episode. (Yeah he had his problems, went through alot, etc etc, doesn't mean he's not a drama queen). One minute, he's sorry and is ashamed, next he's not regretful and is upset at Heather. I mean, I really don't see much wrong Mike committed. I didn't interpret him saying Dustin needs to go home as "MTV needs to send him home for doing gay ****," I just saw it as him saying "If Dustin is ashamed of this and cannot handle this situation, maybe he needs to leave." Many times, if you have to hide something, it either means it's wrong, you're ashamed or both. And the fact that Dustin had to hide his past from everyone gives me at least, an indication of his own views on the situation. I think people judge unfairly all the time. Many say Mike is a waste of time, an idiot etc, but what did he really do except what Dustin did; made some opinionated, though not popular statements about interaction with gay people. WHat did LeRoy do? To a lesser effect, the same? What did Naomi do? Laugh about it, then backed up Heather? What did Nan- wait.... let's leave her out, she has problems in general. What did Heather do? Ask if she should get tested and be upset that the guy she thought she know held important secrets from her that could hurt her image and health, as well as state her opinion on dating men who dabbled in gay activities? I really don't see why the big deal over these people and why their thoughts, opinions and actions are considered homophobic. I know many people who would not be in a relationship with a person who was in ****, and I know alot who would not be in a relationship with someone who had **** *** or with someone who did gay stuff. Homophobic? No. Opinionated? Yes. This whole big argument over Heather being hypocritical (cuz she kisses Nany) is kinda weird, because if anyone condemns her of doing that, they must also condemn Dustin for doing the same. I am personally just tired of Dustin on my tv screen: his dramatic ways, his attitude, everything? Call me a homophobe, what-the-hell-ever, I just don't like the guy.

lol, dustin is one MESSED-up dude. In the episode he said he didn't regret it at all, in the after-show he said he wouldn't do it again. the guy had the mentality of a child. It's unfortunate, but that's what happens when you have a weak parental structure.

[QUOTE=wutzrenzi;245701]All this talk about gay4pay and I must say I think its possible. I don't think if one is involved in gay acts or sells their body for money they are gay. But Dustin still kept secrets, told lies even after outed, did things, and said things that were awfully suspicious. So I believe he could be gay, but had this been anyone else and if they had act more mature, told the truth and never contradicted themselves I would def. think they are straight even though they were involved in gay acts.[/QUOTE] Here's the thing though As Dustin can attest to, once you cross that line you will NEVER be treated the same. This is why people take the tough road when needing money like join the military, work two ****** jobs, sell drugs, commit crimes BEFORE they do gay ****. The same way females in **** are treated like prostitutes, men engaging in gay **** are treated like gay prostitutes. Selling your body is the OLDEST and EASIEST profession in human history. Your doing something that (almost always, short of ******* or so on) feels good and is enjoyable.....for money. If those in the military had the option of having *** with a female **** star instead of serving in the military for the same amount of money, how many would choice ****? But the demand for male **** stars is low. Now compare the demand for male **** stars in gay ****. So why don't more men get involved?? THE BACKLASH. Your taking the easy road for money at the price of being labeled a certain way. So do I think EVERY guy in gay **** is truly gay....no. Just like I don't think every guy in hetero***ual **** is straight BUT the labeling, backlash and ostracism is what keeps people from doing gay ****. At the end of the day Dustin was willing to cross that line. Was he possibly just mentally weak, sure but that's enough for majority of people to label him - by the working label he went by. Which is a guy engaging in gay ***. IMO, it's fair. No one cares nor should they whether or not he truly enjoyed the gay ***. He did it. What else is there to discuss. He crossed the line because it - WASN'T THAT BAD in his opinion. All this, ''He had no other choice'' is *******. Unless he was being physically harmed and his life in danger, it shouldn't even be discussed. Come on, the guy is a healthy, 6 foot something white guy living in America with no felonies. How freaking bad can life really be Guy probably had gay ***ual thoughts growing up and saw he could make money by experimenting. Then after working in Hollywood he realized he actually could have a future in Hollywood but hi***perimental past is killing all his job opportunities. So he saw the Real World as a way to squash that. He is much more likely to get a job now after being ''That guy on Real World that was manipulated into doing gay **** because his life was in shambles''. Some of you are so gullible.

[QUOTE=SPENCERlife;245719]As Dustin can attest to, once you cross that line you will NEVER be treated the same. This is why people take the tough road when needing money like join the military, work two ****** jobs, sell drugs, commit crimes BEFORE they do gay ****. The same way females in **** are treated like prostitutes, men engaging in gay **** are treated like gay prostitutes. Selling your body is the OLDEST and EASIEST profession in human history. Your doing something that (almost always, short of ******* or so on) feels good and is enjoyable.....for money. If those in the military had the option of having *** with a female **** star instead of serving in the military for the same amount of money, how many would choice ****? [/quote] I'm sorry but you have no idea how horrible this analogy is... both in terms of screening and compensation. [QUOTE=SPENCERlife;245719]...So he saw the Real World as a way to squash that. He is much more likely to get a job now after being ''That guy on Real World that was manipulated into doing gay **** because his life was in shambles''. [/QUOTE] :rofl: yeah, I'm sure. as opposed to being "an unknown gay-**** guy, now he's the widely-known gay-**** guy who went on the real-world and made it well-known. I'm sure he's a shoe-in for an executive job *facepalm*

[QUOTE=joey v;245721]:rofl: yeah, I'm sure. as opposed to being "an unknown gay-**** guy, now he's the widely-known gay-**** guy who went on the real-world and made it well-known. I'm sure he's a shoe-in for an executive job *facepalm*[/QUOTE] Executive job? Everyone on there except Mike is in line for your local Chilies job. They aren't going anywhere in life. Didn't two of them study Communications in school? Really, I took more difficult courses in high school He, just like almost everyone else on Real World these days, hoping to land a job in media and entertainment. He is MUCH more known and "famous" now which is half the difficulty in media

Real World is the glorified Jersey Shore. JS works at a t-shirt shop and Real World works at the Hard Rock setting up ramps. JS parties at the bars and clubs of the Jersey Shore and Real World parties at bars and clubs of the Hard Rock You have two kinds of people that go on Real World now A) They want to get their foot in the door for another reality show or some kind of media & entertainment by acting outrageous and shocking B) They are low lives and need a free vacation At the end of the day no one is going anywhere fast. Which makes kicking Adam out so hypocritical. MTV wants ratings and the only reason people were tuning in was to see what Adam could smash next and on the flip side Adam was auditioning for his next reality show. You think Dustin is on the show to ''discover himself'? Exactly how, by clubbing at the Hard Rock and building ramps for XGames?

[QUOTE=SPENCERlife;245723]At the end of the day no one is going anywhere fast. Which makes kicking Adam out so hypocritical. MTV wants ratings and the only reason people were tuning in was to see what Adam could smash next and on the flip side Adam was auditioning for his next reality show.[/QUOTE] you know, the one t hing I really wanted to see was the black dude knock that wangster out. and maybe even take his fake gold-chain. I'm still trying to figure out whether nany is stupid or if she was paid by MTV to fall for adam.

[QUOTE=joey v;245724]you know, the one t hing I really wanted to see was the black dude knock that wangster out. and maybe even take his fake gold-chain. I'm still trying to figure out whether nany is a retard or if she was paid by MTV to fall for adam.[/QUOTE] Leroy (black guy) was dumb for getting in Adams face. Because at that point only 3 things can happen. You throw a punch/he throws a punch, he backs down OR what ended up happening Leroy himself backed down. At the end of the day Adam called his bluff once he got in his face. ''Don't get in my face'' and Leroy stepped back. At that point Adam had the house by the balls The Nani thing is kinda tricky. Almost all the chicks that go on Real World expect to get ****ed some point of the season. But this season is tricky because they live in a hotel room AND on top of that it's quite obvious they just hide in the Hard Rock. Furthermore they usually just go to the club and hang out in VIP so how many non room mates dudes are they even interacting with? Nani just likes white **** and Dustin was taken & Mike well we've seen Mike. Any above average guy could **** each of those chicks given the situation.

[QUOTE=SPENCERlife;245723]Real World is the glorified Jersey Shore. JS works at a t-shirt shop and Real World works at the Hard Rock setting up ramps. JS parties at the bars and clubs of the Jersey Shore and Real World parties at bars and clubs of the Hard Rock You have two kinds of people that go on Real World now A) They want to get their foot in the door for another reality show or some kind of media & entertainment by acting outrageous and shocking B) They are low lives and need a free vacation At the end of the day no one is going anywhere fast. Which[B] makes kicking Adam out so hypocritical[/B]. MTV wants ratings and the only reason people were tuning in was to see what Adam could smash next and on the flip side Adam was auditioning for his next reality show. You think Dustin is on the show to ''discover himself'? Exactly how, by clubbing at the Hard Rock and building ramps for XGames?[/QUOTE] With the exception of the text above in bold, I've seen everything you've been writing as a interesting expression of personal opinion. Nice to have your contribution to the site, whether or not I or others find ourselves in agreement with you. However, the comment above in bold is wrong on a factual basis. The lawyers involved in the process can't be viewed as hypocritical and neither can the process. BMP has a due diligence responsibility to 1) the cast members and 2) the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino. The responsibility is established by separate contracts. Adam's actions triggered a review of events by BMP, likely with the participation of MTV and its Viacom/MTV Networks attorneys, after which it was concluded that Adam could not contractually remain with the cast. One unknown from my perspective is if the property formally "noticed" Adam that a return to the hotel and casino would constitute trespass and subject him to arrest. A other unknown is if BMP and MTV concluded that Adam's conduct created a clear or potentially actionable violation of the Nevada domestic abuse statue. If it were actionable, then the requirement that the production company provide for the security of its contract employee cast would be at risk by allowing him to stay. That doesn't mean BMP doesn't like or value his contribution to the show. They do, as evidenced by his subsequent relationship with MTV and BMP. I find nothing hypocritical in the action of the Hard Rock, the producers or the network. I believe their actions were reasonable, proper... and necessary contractually, whether triggered by cast contracts or the one with the hotel. *** (FYI, somewhere in the forum I've posted elements of the Nevada Handbook on Domestic Violence written for law enforcement and the justice/legal community. It is available online. Those who don't understand why Adam's behavior could be actionable need to review the document.)

I like Nany when she was more of a background character because she is a dumb***.I like Leroy and Mike but there so overrated because they make some good points but so has every other person in the house minus Dustin and NANY. I still do not understand How one can feel betrayed I'm sure they do not know all of each other life story.Heather was the only one with a right to know.I do sympathize with Dustin as he is very concerned with his image. I mean honestly Mike is too critical of Dustin .I really do like Naomi and Cooke they seem real chill minus last week fiasco she got into my good graces again this episode.

[QUOTE=SPENCERlife;245723]Real World is the glorified Jersey Shore. JS works at a t-shirt shop and Real World works at the Hard Rock setting up ramps. JS parties at the bars and clubs of the Jersey Shore and Real World parties at bars and clubs of the Hard Rock You have two kinds of people that go on Real World now A) They want to get their foot in the door for another reality show or some kind of media & entertainment by acting outrageous and shocking B) [B]They are low lives[/B] and need a free vacation At the end of the day no one is going anywhere fast. W[Bhich makes kicking Adam out so hypocritica. MTV wants ratings and the only reason people were tuning in was to see what Adam could smash next and on the flip side Adam was auditioning for his next reality show. You think Dustin is on the show to ''discover himself'? Exactly how, by clubbing at the Hard Rock and building ramps for XGames?[/QUOTE] Unless you have personally met every recent Real Worlder it is not a fair assumption to call them "Low-Lifes".

[QUOTE=V1man;245726]With the exception of the text above in bold, I've seen everything you've been writing as a interesting expression of personal opinion. Nice to have your contribution to the site, whether or not I or others find ourselves in agreement with you. However, the comment above in bold is wrong on a factual basis. The lawyers involved in the process can't be viewed as hypocritical and neither can the process. BMP has a due diligence responsibility to 1) the cast members and 2) the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino. The responsibility is established by separate contracts. Adam's actions triggered a review of events by BMP, likely with the participation of MTV and its Viacom/MTV Networks attorneys, after which it was concluded that Adam could not contractually remain with the cast. One unknown from my perspective is if the property formally "noticed" Adam that a return to the hotel and casino would constitute trespass and subject him to arrest. A other unknown is if BMP and MTV concluded that Adam's conduct created a clear or potentially actionable violation of the Nevada domestic abuse statue. If it were actionable, then the requirement that the production company provide for the security of its contract employee cast would be at risk by allowing him to stay. That doesn't mean BMP doesn't like or value his contribution to the show. They do, as evidenced by his subsequent relationship with MTV and BMP. I find nothing hypocritical in the action of the Hard Rock, the producers or the network. I believe their actions were reasonable, proper... and necessary contractually, whether triggered by cast contracts or the one with the hotel. *** (FYI, somewhere in the forum I've posted elements of the Nevada Handbook on Domestic Violence written for law enforcement and the justice/legal community. It is available online. Those who don't understand why Adam's behavior could be actionable need to review the document.)[/QUOTE]i assumed adam was kicked out by the hotel itself,not nec. production, is that not the case?

I can't stand Mike at all. And Nani is a joke. Dustin grew up with a drug addict/manic depressive mother who according to him was gone a lot. I don't think I would have ever done what he did but honestly until you've been where someone else has been and walked a mile in their shoes you have no clue what you would or wouldn't do. What was he supposed to do, "hi I'm Dustin, when I was just out of school and needed money, I did a gay webcam site with other guys." They would never have gotten to know him or even given him a chance as much as they did. That psychopath or sociopath(can't decide which) Adam was "the biggest drug dealer in Maine"(ha), involved in a shooting and was locked up.* He was violent and was the biggest liar in that house. He lied about almost everything, **** remember the script like lines he used on Nani and then the exact same thing to another girl.* Dustin didn't even lie, he just kept it to himself.* They didn't ask him if he ever blew a guy and he said no. The fact that Mike wants him to leave and doesn't respect him because he did gay stuff only proves my initial opinion that he's a closet homo***ual not to mention fits the profile of a serial killer/***ual sadist, from his super strict up bringing to the extreme shame he feels with anything to do with *** or the opposite *** but when he brought to girls home earlier on in the show he was totally creepy.* Then afterwards he starts beating himself up and saying how disgusting it was that he wanted to get with one.* Obviously when he was growing up he was told it was wrong to be ***ually attracted to females and anything to do with ***uality was disgusting.* Look up some of the serial killers that did **** like mutilating their victims breasts and *** organs, they have the same personality and Mike fits the profile to the T. I think the **** Dustin did however long ago is none of the other room mates business. They're basically strangers aside from Heather and she told him early on that she "could never be with a guy who kissed another guy". Well I can't imagine he would have brought it up when he met them and after she said that what would you have done? I could understand these people being so outraged and disgusted if Dustin had an STD and didn't tell Heather but people make mistakes and it doesn't directly effect any of them. I think I sympathize with him because he admitted most of it from the beginning and I know he wanted to tell her but couldn't. I also think after these people watch the show they'll feel the same because they'll know that he wasn't trying to deliberately hurt anyone or play them for fools.

The only way he'd be living a double life is if he is infact gay, but then I don't know if he is or if he is "bi sexual". Another thing, I don't agree with homophobia and I firmly believe that has a lot to do with latent homosexual tendencies. That said, if Dustin chooses to be homophobic that's his choice. You can't force a bigot to change their perception. Perception is reality now a days. Did these people ever think that maybe he is homophobic because of his past? I think there might be more to his past than just a job doing ****. Possibly some sort of physical abuse on top of the mental and emotional abuse that comes with having a parent with a drug addiction(I assume his mom was a meth addict, which would also explain why he said the drug addiction brought out her manic depressive disorder. Also known as methamphetamine psychosis.) Maybe this "great boss" that "helped him out so much" actually did take advantage of him, or maybe he did some other bad **** that caused him to dislike gay people so much. The way he said "he always made sure I had what I needed and money, I made thousands of dollars a week".. Sounds how this girl I knew talked about her boyfriend who was basically her ****, made her strip at a club and turn tricks and I **** you not when she got home he said "where's my money?". Thousands Really? For doing a webcam show? That's a lot of money for what looked like a low budget **** site. Also isn't it pretty common for straight **** stars to have to start out doing some questionable work(ie:gay/what "Spencer" did)

[QUOTE=V1man;245726]....One unknown from my perspective is if the property formally "noticed" Adam that a return to the hotel and casino would constitute trespass and subject him to arrest.... [/QUOTE] Yes, but he tweeted that he has since been allowed to return to the property but is not allowed to drink on the premises. Most states I think say for Trespass you have to either have posted No trespassing signs or been notified that you are not to return. The penalty is usually a slap on the wrist though. The security guard told him he was banned for a year. There is a hotel in Panama City Beach from which I am banned because of the acts largely of my mates, so been there, done that.

[QUOTE=Akomplice;245735]I can't stand Mike at all. And Nani is a joke. Dustin grew up with a drug addict/manic depressive mother who according to him was gone a lot. I don't think I would have ever done what he did but honestly until you've been where someone else has been and walked a mile in their shoes you have no clue what you would or wouldn't do. What was he supposed to do, "hi I'm Dustin, when I was just out of school and needed money, I did a gay webcam site with other guys." They would never have gotten to know him or even given him a chance as much as they did. That psychopath or sociopath(can't decide which) Adam was "the biggest drug dealer in Maine"(ha), involved in a shooting and was locked up.* He was violent and was the biggest liar in that house. He lied about almost everything, **** remember the script like lines he used on Nani and then the exact same thing to another girl.* Dustin didn't even lie, he just kept it to himself.* They didn't ask him if he ever blew a guy and he said no. The fact that Mike wants him to leave and doesn't respect him only proves my initial opinion that he's a closet homo***ual not to mention fits the profile of a serial killer/***ual sadist, from his super strict up bringing to the extreme shame he feels with anything to do with *** or the opposite *** but when he brought to girls home earlier on in the show he was totally creepy.* Then afterwards he starts beating himself up and saying how disgusting it was that he wanted to get with one.* Obviously when he was growing up he was told it was wrong to be ***ually attracted to females and anything to do with ***uality was disgusting.* Look up some of the serial killers that did **** like mutilating their victims breasts and *** organs, they have the same personality and Mike fits the profile to the T. I think the **** Dustin did however long ago is none of the other room mates business. They're basically strangers aside from Heather and she told him early on that she "could never be with a guy who kissed another guy". Well I can't imagine he would have brought it up when he met them and after she said that what would you have done? I could understand these people being so outraged and disgusted if Dustin had an STD and didn't tell Heather but people make mistakes and it doesn't directly effect any of them. I think I sympathize with him because he admitted most of it from the beginning and I know he wanted to tell her but couldn't. I also think after these people watch the show they'll feel the same because they'll know that he wasn't trying to deliberately hurt anyone or play them for fools[/QUOTE] I agree with nothing you said This is an example of hypocrisy. I mean, I don't like neither Dustin nor Adam, but in essence, they did the same thing. 1) The both had bad pasts, so I don't get how one can "understand" DUstin's decisions and past choices but not "understand" Adam's. 2) They both lied, Dustin by not telling his woman about it and Adam by over-exaggerating it. You also seem to hate Mike because, from what you said, you think he is judgmental, then you go judging him saying he's a sociopath and is like a *** offender and serial killer.... Really? This i***treme. You said you never know what someone had to go through as a defense of Dustin, yet you go against that very statement by your other statements about Adam and Mike.

[QUOTE=cryssy19;245739]I agree with everything you said except the bolded part....[/QUOTE] LOL. :girl_dance:

[QUOTE=cystic;245741]I'm wondering how people are rationalizing that "keeping something from someone" isn't considered lying. It is, folks. Just like breaking a promise is lying. You can twist it any way you want to try and alleviate the guilt, but it's all the same...[/QUOTE] I disagree. It is highly circumstantial. Under certain circumstances, it might would be, but under others it would not be even if the information is exactly the same.

[QUOTE=cystic;245743]It's not circumstantial. You can keep singing "he did it out of desperation", but at the end of the day he made his decision and has to live with it, much like all of us. Whether people want to accept his decision or not is their own problem. He wasn't blackmailed, forced, or tricked into doing gay ****, and I know how badly many of you wants to make the site owner out to be this manipulative bad guy who employed dirty tactics to hire his employees. He didn't. He simply ran a business and sought out young bucks to fit the bill for his product. They consented. They sign a contract. It's not a hard concept when consent is involved. They accept the responsibility of the choice they make. I'm tired of hearing excuses. I am in no way overlooking the ethical issues of pornography, but come on people. You're looking at the business through tiny lens because the word "***" is involved, while excusing Dustin's duplicity simply because he had a rough life. By that same logic, Adam gets a pass for his idiotic behavior.[/QUOTE] I was reading his comment,thinking it was pertaining to the "lying" aspect. I still do not consider it a lie. And as for the argument itself, I think he pretty much said almost everything you did...he did it because [U]he[/U] felt he had no other options, true or false it was how he felt and noone can actually say what he was thinking at the time, and then he said pretty much everything you said about the man, he was consenting he was not Forced and he will face his fate, it made who he is but not who he will become. As for lying we all fall short..blah blah blah, but heather also "lied" when he said something about telling them, she said she didnt everyone already knew but she did indeed inform leroy at the least. I think she is entitled to how she feels because she is in the situation and emotions are exactly that. I also believe she will surprise everyone and get over it

[QUOTE=cystic;245743]By that same logic, Adam gets a pass for his idiotic behavior.[/QUOTE] I agree with everything you say, except for this last part. I simply fail to see this analogy between Dustin's and Adam's behaviour. Dustin did ****, which is NOT harming anyone, except for himself maybe. This cannot be compared to what Adam did at all. **** is not crime, although a lot of people like to compare both. More importantly, Dustin is apparently not proud of what he did and tries to hide it (Again, I agree that he lied, I absolutely dislike that he did not tell Heather), whereas Adam STILL seems to be proud of what he did and even uses those "stories" to (what he thinks) impress and/or intimidate other people, which in my book shows even less maturity or good will than lying (or hiding the truth). [And just to add, I'm not talking about Dustin's comments about gays, which is a different story and really the main thing that I'm having a problem with. Not that this matters much anyway ;)]

[QUOTE=cystic;245743]It's not circumstantial. You can keep singing "he did it out of desperation", but at the end of the day he made his decision and has to live with it, much like all of us. Whether people want to accept his decision or not is their own problem. He wasn't blackmailed, forced, or tricked into doing gay ****, and I know how badly many of you wants to make the site owner out to be this manipulative bad guy who employed dirty tactics to hire his employees. He didn't. He simply ran a business and sought out young bucks to fit the bill for his product. They consented. They sign a contract. It's not a hard concept when consent is involved. They accept the responsibility of the choice they make. I'm tired of hearing excuses. I am in no way overlooking the ethical issues of pornography, but come on people. You're looking at the business through tiny lens because the word "***" is involved, while excusing Dustin's duplicity simply because he had a rough life. By that same logic, Adam gets a pass for his idiotic behavior.[/QUOTE] I wasn't referring specifically to Dustin Zito. You made the general statement, "I'm wondering how people are rationalizing that "keeping something from someone" isn't considered lying. It is, folks. Just like breaking a promise is lying. You can twist it any way you want to try and alleviate the guilt, but it's all the same... ". Zito withheld the info from everybody. As it pertains to Heather, some could consider that lying. As it pertains to the others, some could consider that not lying. Not everybody is entitled to know everything there is to know about your past just by virtue of knowing you or being a co-worker on a TV show.

[QUOTE=cystic;245747]Yes, that is true. But I didn't intend to compare their acts, rather their troubled backgrounds and how it's not a good cureall excuse to justify someone's questionable decisions, whatever they may be. We can agree that their decisions were questionable at the least.[/QUOTE] Sorry then, I probably read too much into your post :) Troubled backgrounds are no excuse for anything, but it definitely helps to understand people's motivations. And to me it's the "better" option to choose something that does not harm or endanger anyone's life.

[QUOTE=cystic;245750]No one is entitled to know your past, but don't expect a positive reaction when they have to find out from multiple outside sources (Adam included). This group and that group can consider what it wants, but by definition, it's lying. And I'll say it again, the "they didn't know each other for very long" argument could be reciprocated to support that the castmates didn't have a **** obligation to support Dustin or accept him since they "didn't know him for that long". [B]I'm neutral on that argument but you see where I'm going with this[/B].[/QUOTE] No, I really don't. It feels to me that you are judging him differently than the others. I, for one, have said that he should have told her. Discussing also why I can understand the reason he didn't, or that how I can understand maybe why he did the Fratpad thing in the first place, has no bearing on whether or not I think he should have told her. It is the difference between distinguishing between what someone does and why they do it. And, just to be clear, it is not an issue of truth or duty for me, it is about common decency. Whether or not the others accepted him or supported him, is a matter of character, not veracity.

This was a really good episode IMO! They spent the whole time on one subject, but it didn't really get boring like it would've if they'd dragged it out over 2 or 3 episodes. The only person that really came across well in the episode was Heather. I thought she handled the situation particularly well. I can only imagine how the other girls would've reacted to something like that...