[QUOTE=JayTee;326699][B]LOL you seriously think Jasmine is a good competitor? ****. She has heart I'll give you that[/B], but she was about to passed up climbing those mountains and got destroyed by Sam who's only 2 inches taller and 10-15 lbs heavier in hall brawl. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say she'll never win one of these challenges due to her small size.
[/QUOTE]
What? Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say that. Heart is what she has and again she's not a Shavoun, Casey or Katelynn - just plain terrible and terrified to do anything.
[QUOTE=wutzrenzi;326726] she's not a Shavoun, Casey or Katelynn - just plain terrible and terrified to do anything.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree. Jaz is nowhere near as bad as them
[QUOTE=kvm1977;326710]1. Did the do the mission better than anyone else?
2. Does a puzzle not count as a win?
They did win a mission and an elimination round. No one said they were elite competitors but they also never finished last in any of the girl elimination days either. They were solid throughout Rivals as two of the smaller girls and with no alliance. It isn't hard to give credit when it is due.
Jasmine also did solid in her elimination during Exes. Yes, it was just jumping and ducking but when you're right around 5 feet it takes more effort and she did better than Tyrie & Aneesa.
That's stop acting like they're Shauvon.
Not sure why you're bringing up Ryan--he won a few eliminations in his day and a faceoff.[/QUOTE]
They finished last on almost every single male elimination which should certainly count for something. Their not finishing last on the females day was due to luck and a whole bunch of fluke DQs by Laurel and Cara rather than actually putting up solid performances.
Looking at all the female teams on Rivals, Jasmine and Jonna would be at the very bottom of it as far as who I would want on my team from an athletic standpoint. I would take every other female team over Jasmine and Jonna in most things...even Sarah and Katelyn. If if were not for Laurel and Cara's fluke of a DQ on the third episode, Jasmine and Jonna would've been gone by the third episode.
Jasmine did do solid in her elimination round during Exes but she wasn't at a disadvantage for being around 5 feet because that enabled her to breeze through the ducking portions. She had to jump higher but she had to crouch less so it balanced out. She still did a great job though.
I haven't seen Jonna do anything on this challenge yet. Based off of what I have seen of her so far, I think if you threw her into a physical match up with girls like Camilla, Sarah, Jenn, Kelly Anne she would get torn apart. I think even Katie Doyle would rough her up.
[QUOTE=v123;326778]They finished last on almost every single male elimination which should certainly count for something. Their not finishing last on the females day was due to luck and a whole bunch of fluke DQs by Laurel and Cara rather than actually putting up solid performances.
Looking at all the female teams on Rivals, Jasmine and Jonna would be at the very bottom of it as far as who I would want on my team from an athletic standpoint. I would take every other female team over Jasmine and Jonna in most things...even Sarah and Katelyn. If if were not for Laurel and Cara's fluke of a DQ on the third episode, Jasmine and Jonna would've been gone by the third episode.
Jasmine did do solid in her elimination round during Exes but she wasn't at a disadvantage for being around 5 feet
because that enabled her to breeze through the ducking portions. She had to jump higher but she had to crouch less so it balanced out. She still did a great job though.
I haven't seen Jonna do anything on this challenge yet. Based off of what I have seen of her so far, I think if you threw her into a physical match up with girls like Camilla, Sarah, Jenn, Kelly Anne she would get torn apart. I think even Katie Doyle would rough her up.[/QUOTE]
Lol flukes and luck? Laurel and CM heard the rules and broke them (no fluke there) and then they DQed due to their own fault. Sarah and Katelynn DQed because they both fell and couldn't get back in time. I would take JJ over Mandi/Jenn and Sarah/Katelynn.
That's a weak jab at Jonna. No one said she's a physical beast but a smart girl who is solid and has a good social game. Her and Jasmine would get crushed in anything physical due to their size and how thin they are.
[QUOTE=Nightwolf;326655]Ok that is it I've had enough.
Can someone point out ONE, just ONE instance prior to Wednesday's episode of CJ doing ANYTHING that proves he's so amazing at missions and stuff? So many people here have been hyping this guy up as one of the best and so great but outside of beating Zach, I haven't seen him do a **** thing between Fresh Meat II and this one.[/QUOTE]
He beat Brandon & Katelynn on Fresh Meat II in an Exile.
[QUOTE=El Scorcho;326796]He beat Brandon & Katelynn on Fresh Meat II in an Exile.[/QUOTE]
No he did not. Brandon and Katelynn were disqualified before the Exile even began because Brandon had beer. Also, if I remember correctly, Katelynn was injuried and on crutches.
[QUOTE=jr588;326799]No he did not. Brandon and Katelynn were disqualified before the Exile even began because Brandon had beer. Also, if I remember correctly, Katelynn was injuried and on crutches.[/QUOTE]
And let's not forget that pathetic lie, which was supposed to be part of a great game-changing strategy....*FAIL
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;326790]Lol flukes and luck? Laurel and CM heard the rules and broke them (no fluke there) and then they DQed due to their own fault. Sarah and Katelynn DQed because they both fell and couldn't get back in time. I would take JJ over Mandi/Jenn and Sarah/Katelynn.
That's a weak jab at Jonna. No one said she's a physical beast but a smart girl who is solid and has a good social game. Her and Jasmine would get crushed in anything physical due to their size and how thin they are.[/QUOTE]
Laurel and Cara did not lose that mission because they put up an inadequate time or because they were not strong enough the same way Jonna and Jasmine would have. They "lost" the mission by breaking a rule the same way CT lost a couple of the Duel missions for not listening even though he actually dominated. Nobody said that it wasn't their own fault but let's be honest here, if you were told to pick any of those teams for a repeat of a similar challenge, I highly doubt you would take Jonna and Jasmine over Laurel and Cara.
JJ over Mandi/Jenn is funny seeing as though Mandi/Jenn outperformed JJ in practically every single mission. JJ did about as well as Sarah/Katelyn so I think it's debatable as to which team I would rather have. Sarah is far better than Jonna and Jasmine and in anything physical Katelyn would bulldoze over JJ.
So by stating the fact that she and Jasmine would lose in anything physical due to their size, how does that help their case as competitors? Doesn't that, if anything, limit their usefulness in today's heavy size dependent challenges? Besides, Sarah, Jenn, Camila, Kelly Anne are not much bigger than Jonna and I think they've revealed a lot more as competitors than Jonna has. We'll see what Jonna has to offer though in the next few weeks though since she hasn't showed anything at all thus far.
[QUOTE=v123;326807]Laurel and Cara did not lose that mission because they put up an inadequate time or because they were not strong enough the same way Jonna and Jasmine would have. They "lost" the mission by breaking a rule the same way CT lost a couple of the Duel missions for not listening even though he actually dominated. Nobody said that it wasn't their own fault but let's be honest here, if you were told to pick any of those teams for a repeat of a similar challenge, I highly doubt you would take Jonna and Jasmine over Laurel and Cara.
JJ over Mandi/Jenn is funny seeing as though Mandi/Jenn outperformed JJ in practically every single mission. JJ did about as well as Sarah/Katelyn so I think it's debatable as to which team I would rather have. Sarah is far better than Jonna and Jasmine and in anything physical Katelyn would bulldoze over JJ.
So by stating the fact that she and Jasmine would lose in anything physical due to their size, how does that help their case as competitors? Doesn't that, if anything, limit their usefulness in today's heavy size dependent challenges? Besides, Sarah, Jenn, Camila, Kelly Anne are not much bigger than Jonna and I think they've revealed a lot more as competitors than Jonna has. We'll see what Jonna has to offer though in the next few weeks though since she hasn't showed anything at all thus far.[/QUOTE]
So if Sarah was indeed better why did she not defeat them in a puzzle (something she's supposed to be amazing at)?
It's not supposed to help my case. I'm explaining that I'm aware they'd get crushed in anything physical because of how skinny and small they are. My point was they have a ton of heart and Jonna has proven to be solid. She defeated Sarah, has performed well this season when needed and outlasted Nany in something involving strength and has been solid. No need to under sell them as weak.
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;326835]So if Sarah was indeed better why did she not defeat them in a puzzle (something she's supposed to be amazing at)?
It's not supposed to help my case. I'm explaining that I'm aware they'd get crushed in anything physical because of how skinny and small they are. My point was they have a ton of heart and Jonna has proven to be solid. She defeated Sarah, has performed well this season when needed and outlasted Nany in something involving strength and has been solid. No need to under sell them as weak.[/QUOTE]
Jonna beat Sarah at the puzzle while Sarah beat Jonna in the physical portion. It just so happened that the elimination round rewarded the brains over the brawn. Being able to solve puzzles is a great skill to have but I don't use it as a marker to gauge somebody's competitive potential unless it's adjunct to adequate athletic ability(Evelyn, Laurel) and Jonna certainly showed that she does not match up to Sarah in that particular aspect. Ryan Kehoe beat Derek McCray in a puzzle. Would you pick Ryan or Derek as your partner if you had the choice? I would take Sarah over Jonna 99% of the time.
Jonna did not outlast Nany. Jonna and CJ outlasted Nany and Alton. Jonna and CJ also happened to have less rocks in their basket than Nany and Alton by the time TJ blew the horn. I also know that CJ is an athlete and very capable...thus it's quite possible that he could've been the reason for their win. It's really hard to say but judging by CJ's performance last week and Jonna's lack of confidence in taking out Sam and just overall lack of demonstration in anything physical, I don't think it's fair to say that Jonna beat Nany without looking at the overall picture.
I'm not saying Jonna is weak but up to this point she hasn't shown much. I certainly don't consider her performance on Rivals to be "solid" by any means. Let's be honest here, she was at best, the second worst team there. We will see how she does in the next couple of weeks. I don't think she's done anything up to this point to warrant her being called strong.
[QUOTE=v123;326855]Jonna beat Sarah at the puzzle while Sarah beat Jonna in the physical portion. It just so happened that the elimination round rewarded the brains over the brawn. Being able to solve puzzles is a great skill to have but I don't use it as a marker to gauge somebody's competitive potential unless it's adjunct to adequate athletic ability(Evelyn, Laurel) and Jonna certainly showed that she does not match up to Sarah in that particular aspect. Ryan Kehoe beat Derek McCray in a puzzle. Would you pick Ryan or Derek as your partner if you had the choice? I would take Sarah over Jonna 99% of the time.
Jonna did not outlast Nany. Jonna and CJ outlasted Nany and Alton. Jonna and CJ also happened to have less rocks in their basket than Nany and Alton by the time TJ blew the horn. I also know that CJ is an athlete and very capable...thus it's quite possible that he could've been the reason for their win. It's really hard to say but judging by CJ's performance last week and Jonna's lack of confidence in taking out Sam and just overall lack of demonstration in anything physical, I don't think it's fair to say that Jonna beat Nany without looking at the overall picture.
I'm not saying Jonna is weak but up to this point she hasn't shown much. I certainly don't consider her performance on Rivals to be "solid" by any means. Let's be honest here, she was at best, the second worst team there. We will see how she does in the next couple of weeks. I don't think she's done anything up to this point to warrant her being called strong.[/QUOTE]
And again that is where Jonna lacks: the physical department. Should it matter where she defeated her in the elimination?
No matter how strong your partner is you still have to hold up your end. Nany is a bigger girl and that in itself is impressive. The only team that put more rocks in their basket was NOLA. Not a huge difference. I'm calling her solid and I've already proven why. She is by no means an elite player.
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;326856]And again that is where Jonna lacks: the physical department. Should it matter where she defeated her in the elimination?
[/QUOTE]
Of course it should. Ryan beat Derek....in a puzzle. I'm sure Jonna would've taken out Jodi in that elimination too.
Vegas had an extra row of rocks in their basket...and they had heavier weight in their basket for a longer duration as well. I think that made a big difference.
[QUOTE=v123;326862]Of course it should. Ryan beat Derek....in a puzzle. I'm sure Jonna would've taken out Jodi in that elimination too.
Vegas had an extra row of rocks in their basket...and they had heavier weight in their basket for a longer duration as well. I think that made a big difference.[/QUOTE]
And? A complete competitor like Sarah should have been able to defeat Jonna if she is better than her.
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;326874]And? A complete competitor like Sarah should have been able to defeat Jonna if she is better than her.[/QUOTE]
I don't think there is anything bad to say about Jonna's puzzle solving abilities. It's her physical abilities that are questionable and that's what I'm debating...that she is inferior to Sarah and a string of similar sized women in that particular department.
[QUOTE=v123;326920]I don't think there is anything bad to say about Jonna's puzzle solving abilities. It's her physical abilities that are questionable and that's what I'm debating...that she is inferior to Sarah and a string of similar sized women in that particular department.[/QUOTE]
Oh I agree there. Unlike Jasmine, she could improve in that department easily considering that she actually has size and just needs zome muscle.
[QUOTE=MYBOYBLUE;326863]Jonna > Jodi? LOL[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure you missed the point they were making. Ryan (FM) beat Derek (RR:VR) in an elimination upset of the century, but only because it was a puzzle.
Jonna beating Jodi would be the same thing, Jodi is extremely strong but puzzles frazzle her while Jonna is good at puzzles so she could potentially beat her.
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;326713]Sam actually has about 30 lbs. at least on Jasmine. As I said before, she's consistently been put up against elite competitors and/or put in physical eliminations where it is almost impossible for her to win.[/QUOTE]
Well what is MTV supposed to do? Cast a midget on every real world cast so that if they compete on The Challenge we have some sort of "fairness"?
This is the Challenge. Sam is probably the weakest competitor in the house next to Jonna. Jasmine could have not been put up against someone weaker.
[QUOTE=JayTee;326957]
This is the Challenge. Sam is probably the weakest competitor in the house next to Jonna. Jasmine could have not been put up against someone weaker.[/QUOTE]
**** @ Jonna being the weakest competitor in the house. It is honestly too funny.
Jasmine is not the new Katie. Katie was highly entertaining and I found myself consistently rooting for her due to the amount of negativity directed toward her by the queen bees. Jasmine's occasional tirades just make her annoying (she seems to average about 1 a season), and people don't actively go after her so there's no reason to want to see her kick ***.
Jonna should have gone in. Simply put, she stood a grossly larger chance against Sam than Jasmine did. Her cop-out excuse was weak and pathetic.
[spoiler]She pretty much sent her entire team home this season with her decision to puss out[/spoiler]
However, as long as they worked it out ahead of time that they were going to punt (snicker), it made no sense for CJ to go in. It's not as though he overpowered Zach in any way so Derek could have pretty much made all of the exact same plays with the same results (I don't believe CJ's superior strength would have been much of a factor in his win where he tripped Zach and grabbed his legs). I doubt Derek would have agreed to go in though which is also kinda pathetic. Noone's asking you to fight the dude, just get past him. It's not out of the realm of possibility for a mismatched underdog to use his head to get a win. (Brad vs CT?)
[QUOTE=Aereas;326964]Jasmine is not the new Katie. Katie was highly entertaining and I found myself consistently rooting for her due to the amount of negativity directed toward her by the queen bees. Jasmine's occasional tirades just make her annoying (she seems to average about 1 a season), and people don't actively go after her so there's no reason to want to see her kick ***.
Jonna should have gone in. Simply put, she stood a grossly larger chance against Sam than Jasmine did. Her cop-out excuse was weak and pathetic.
[spoiler]She pretty much sent her entire team home this season with her decision to puss out[/spoiler]
However, as long as they worked it out ahead of time that they were going to punt (snicker), it made no sense for CJ to go in. It's not as though he overpowered Zach in any way so Derek could have pretty much made all of the exact same plays with the same results (I don't believe CJ's superior strength would have been much of a factor in his win where he tripped Zach and grabbed his legs). I doubt Derek would have agreed to go in though which is also kinda pathetic. Noone's asking you to fight the dude, just get past him. It's not out of the realm of possibility for a mismatched underdog to use his head to get a win. (Brad vs CT?)[/QUOTE]
But why would Jonna volunteer? As KVM has said multiple times, on paper Zach vs. CJ in something physical is not something CJ would likely win. I'm sorry but Jonna is probably just a bit heavier than Jasmine. She is taller but Sam would still have her beat in Hall Brawl due to weight.
I also find it humorous that Jonna is considered weak.
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;326965]But why would Jonna volunteer? As KVM has said multiple times, on paper Zach vs. CJ in something physical is not something CJ would likely win. I'm sorry but Jonna is probably just a bit heavier than Jasmine. She is taller but Sam would still have her beat in Hall Brawl due to weight.
I also find it humorous that Jonna is considered weak.[/QUOTE]
What kills me is if Trishelle or someone else that is popular had done this most people been have been talking about how strategic it was and how great of a manipulator she is.
Again, if it was a strategic or endurance elimination round there could be a decent argument made--especially endurance based on height--but not physical.
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;326965]But why would Jonna volunteer? As KVM has said multiple times, on paper Zach vs. CJ in something physical is not something CJ would likely win. I'm sorry but Jonna is probably just a bit heavier than Jasmine. She is taller but Sam would still have her beat in Hall Brawl due to weight.
I also find it humorous that Jonna is considered weak.[/QUOTE]
It is pure speculation that Sam would have beaten her in Hall Brawl due to weight. Sam isn't even that big. With the knowledge that CJ was going in, Jonna should have gone in or convinced CJ not to go in. Her strategy of refusing to talk about the entire situation made me think she was selfish and just wanted to get another check for weekly pay and possibly make the Final and get 3rd place. I don't think her goal was to win the game. If her goal was to win the entire game, she would have volunteered to go in with CJ because that would have given the team the best shot at winning it all.
[QUOTE=TheFeedMachi;326971]It is pure speculation that Sam would have beaten her in Hall Brawl due to weight. Sam isn't even that big. With the knowledge that CJ was going in, Jonna should have gone in or convinced CJ not to go in. Her strategy of refusing to talk about the entire situation made me think she was selfish and just wanted to get another check for weekly pay and possibly make the Final and get 3rd place. I don't think her goal was to win the game. If her goal was to win the entire game, she would have volunteered to go in with CJ because that would have given the team the best shot at winning it all.[/QUOTE]
Jonna has explained this on Twitter--she though going in was suicide and so would any rational person. Who says she didn't try to convince CJ not to go in? Their best chance to win involved getting rid of Jasmine because she proved she can't handle a final during the log mission.
How much does Jonna and Sam weigh? Jonna said that Sam had 40 pounds on her, but was that speculation? Sam doesn't look THAT much bigger than Jonna. She isn't "fat" despite what Frank likes to think.
Maybe it's cause I see Jonna as taller and lean, so I would assume she is very fit, and could hold her own. Maybe they'll be a Jonna/Sam matchup in the future to put this to rest :P
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;326965]But why would Jonna volunteer? As KVM has said multiple times, on paper Zach vs. CJ in something physical is not something CJ would likely win. I'm sorry but Jonna is probably just a bit heavier than Jasmine. She is taller but Sam would still have her beat in Hall Brawl due to weight.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=kvm1977;326974]Jonna has explained this on Twitter--she though going in was suicide and so would any rational person. Who says she didn't try to convince CJ not to go in? Their best chance to win involved getting rid of Jasmine because she proved she can't handle a final during the log mission.[/QUOTE]
Yep, you guys & Jonna are right. Both SD competitors had a weight advantage on the Cancun people, so case closed. Cancun has no chance against such insurmountable odds... except that the Same weighs more than Jonna argument holds little water after CJ showed Zach for the ***** he is. Seriously, how many times are relatively smaller guys going to have to punk out the big guys before people start coming around to an alternate way of thinking. It's not always about weight/strength! All other things being equal, I think most people would agree that Jonna is more clever than Jasmine. So get in there, compete like you claim you're there to do, figure out a way to win (like CJ did), and stop being a *****!
They don't get a weekly check, no one gets paid unless you get top 3 places. So that doesn't really prove or matter to anything & Jonna didn't think this through because she's leaving herself with Derek... Which isn't saying much.
[QUOTE=hannamez8;326982]They don't get a weekly check, no one gets paid unless you get top 3 places. So that doesn't really prove or matter to anything & Jonna didn't think this through because she's leaving herself with Derek... Which isn't saying much.[/QUOTE]
So going in and going home is better than being stuck with Derek? Seriously?
[QUOTE=hannamez8;326982]They don't get a weekly check, no one gets paid unless you get top 3 places. So that doesn't really prove or matter to anything & Jonna didn't think this through because she's leaving herself with Derek... Which isn't saying much.[/QUOTE]
They do get weekly checks. Well not all of them. The veterans(3+ challenges) get paid a base amount for an appearance fee, regardless of how long they are there for, and the rookies (1st or 2nd challenge) get paid weekly. That is a fact. It isn't debatable.
What you can debate is whether or not it was selfish of Jonna to not go in and effectively kill her team's chances at winning the game. I look at the Challenge as a competition, so I see her as being selfish and going for the money. If you look at it as a job, then you can say it was the logical choice because of the risk/reward factor of the entire situation.
[QUOTE=kvm1977;326963]LMAO @ Jonna being the weakest competitor in the house. It is honestly too funny.[/QUOTE]
[U]Devyn[/U] outweighs her and is stronger than her.
[U]Sarah[/U] outweighs her, is stronger, has more endurance, and is probably the smartest in the house.
[U]Nani[/U] outweighs her, is stronger, and has a "animal-rage mode" like CT.
[U]Trishelle[/U] is smarter and has a lot more experience doing these challenges than her.
[U]Marie[/U] outweighs her, is stronger, and can also go into psycho mode like Nani.
[U]Ashley[/U] is probably equally skilled as Jonna.
[U]Sam[/U] is probably equally skilled as Jonna.
Jonna was at the bottom of the toting pole with Jasmine, Sam & Ashley from the start lol and Jemye too.
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