[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;328183]Totally agree. Very much comparable to Diem in that sense. Jonna is overlooked because of how thin she is, but she's definitely one of the top 3 girls in this challenge with Sarah and Camila.[/QUOTE]
Diem may be the best example--I was thinking Jillian but Diem may make more sense. Good call.
[QUOTE=TheFeedMachi;328133]
I criticize anyone who makes a poor game play, and Jonna did just that. If everything was the same with CJ going in and the option being themselves or Jasmine against Zach and Sam, I would criticize Nany, Trishelle, Marie, Ashley, Sarah, and Devyn for not going in. Pretty much any female on this season except for Lacey, Jemmye, and McKenzie, since they are in my eyes, just as weak as Jasmine for a physical game.[/QUOTE]
LOL wat? I agree with Lacey but McKenzie and Jemmye are way stronger than Jasmine and I would pick them to beat most girls for that matter. McKenzie has a lean athletic frame, she easily beat Nany and Jonna in the oil wrestling challenge. When you consider she was teamed with Preston she def. held her own in the elimination round as well. Jemmye was a College Softball player I believe, so I doubt she's a pushover. She beat Trischelle and lost a close one to Sam in the oil wrestling.
I think Nany is overrated as a competitor due to being with Dustin and Alton. Dustin carried her in strategy the elimination vs St. Thomas I don't think she would go anywhere if she was with the New Orleans guys. Jemmye and McKenzie are at least just as strong if not stronger than her IMO.
[QUOTE=Shogun99;328186] McKenzie has a lean athletic frame, she easily beat Nany and Jonna in the oil wrestling challenge. When you consider she was teamed with Preston she def. held her own in the elimination round as well.[/QUOTE]
I didn't think Mckenzie was going to be a bad competitor going in but now I think she is. Jonna intentionally lost to McKenzie and Nany's arm flailed which is why she lost. She was gassing out in the first round in her elimination round. Everyone who has commented on her (Zach, Knight, Jemmye, Alton) said she wasn't a good competitor. Nany on the other hand, was picked second by Zach as one of five rookie girls he'd want on a team with him.
I think she was easily one of the prettiest girls on the show...but a better competitor than Nany? No way.
[QUOTE=kvm1977;328185]Diem may be the best example--I was thinking Jillian but Diem may make more sense. Good call.[/QUOTE]
I'm sick of talking about Jonna but I don't understand the comparison to Diem. Diem is one of the best endurance runners ever in the game, we've never seen Jonna do anything that required endurance besides the log challenge. I don't care if Frank says she could run for days, let's actually see it. I still don't think we've seen enough of these girls to know how good they are, at this point Ashley could be better than her.
New topic- I'm surprised people haven't been talking about Alton's performance. The dude went from being one of the 3 best competitors ever to losing an endurance challenge vs Robb and Marie, 2 of the biggest smokers in the house (I know Alton smokes too but still). Is he even a top 10 player of all time anymore?
What really bummed me out about this episode is that since there probably aren't more than three eliminations left, if Jonna goes into the Arena she won't be able to do the Endurance one. That was all I really wanted to happen this season.
[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;328191]
New topic- I'm surprised people haven't been talking about Alton's performance. The dude went from being one of the 3 best competitors ever to losing an endurance challenge vs Robb and Marie, 2 of the biggest smokers in the house (I know Alton smokes too but still). Is he even a top 10 player of all time anymore?[/QUOTE]
Alton's still one of the top 10 guys IMO--one "average/poor" challenge doesn't change that. It would be like saying Darrell isn't top 3 because he lost with Cara Maria.
Can we even say with certainty that he was the reason they lost? Probably not and they barely lost--it wasn't like they were humiliated or anything like some people that would be included in that top 10. I think it would be difficult to name 10 guys that are definitely better. The only 2 that I think are definitely better "competitors" would be Landon & Darrell. Then there's a bunch of guys you could debate. It wasn't like Alton was awful throughout this challenge. Alton's never been a great strategic player IMO so I wouldn't have said he was a top 3 player but a top 3 competitor.
[QUOTE=JL81790;328190]I didn't think Mckenzie was going to be a bad competitor going in but now I think she is. Jonna intentionally lost to McKenzie and Nany's arm flailed which is why she lost. She was gassing out in the first round in her elimination round. Everyone who has commented on her (Zach, Knight, Jemmye, Alton) said she wasn't a good competitor. Nany on the other hand, was picked second by Zach as one of five rookie girls he'd want on a team with him.
I think she was easily one of the prettiest girls on the show...but a better competitor than Nany? No way.[/QUOTE]
I guess I'm just going by what I saw but did the cast specifically mention which of the oil wrestling matches were thrown and which were competitive. I felt like the thrown matches were easy to spot like Camilla and Devyn. Both of Mckenzie"s wins over Nany and Jonna appear to be legit competitive unless I'm missing something. She has a size advantage over both girls and was getting the better of them throughout the match. It's tough to compare physical performance based on 4 person teams, but Nany was with the strongest guys Mackenzie was with the weakest. That's why I use oil wrestling as the metric to measure individual performance, because it was legit one on one in a physical challenge. At least the matches which were not thrown that is
[QUOTE=Shogun99;328217]I guess I'm just going by what I saw but did the cast specifically mention which of the oil wrestling matches were thrown and which were competitive. I felt like the thrown matches were easy to spot like Camilla and Devyn. Both of Mckenzie"s wins over Nany and Jonna appear to be legit competitive unless I'm missing something. She has a size advantage over both girls and was getting the better of them throughout the match. It's tough to compare physical performance based on 4 person teams, but Nany was with the strongest guys Mackenzie was with the weakest. That's why I use oil wrestling as the metric to measure individual performance, because it was legit one on one in a physical challenge. At least the matches which were not thrown that is[/QUOTE]
McKenzie's matches were predetermined who was going to win--Jonna didn't even kind of try. Those teams already decided to rotate who was going to win at that point. I don't think McKenzie is nearly as weak as some are claiming but we didn't really learn anything about her on this challenge. There were only about 7 real matches...Every match with St Thomas and the first 3 to 5.
[QUOTE=Shogun99;328217]I guess I'm just going by what I saw but did the cast specifically mention which of the oil wrestling matches were thrown and which were competitive. I felt like the thrown matches were easy to spot like Camilla and Devyn. Both of Mckenzie"s wins over Nany and Jonna appear to be legit competitive unless I'm missing something. She has a size advantage over both girls and was getting the better of them throughout the match. It's tough to compare physical performance based on 4 person teams, but Nany was with the strongest guys Mackenzie was with the weakest. That's why I use oil wrestling as the metric to measure individual performance, because it was legit one on one in a physical challenge. At least the matches which were not thrown that is[/QUOTE]
New Orleans was in a tight alliance with San Diego. Those matches were thrown and Mackenzie did not win anything. By all accounts from people who were there, she was just not a good competitor. Preston did better than she did in the arena, she was gassed halfway through.
[QUOTE=Camille;328179][B]I think Jonna is an underrated competitor and misunderstood. She's really smart.[/B] She even beat Sarah at a puzzle on Rivals after Sarah was so sure of herself that she would beat her. I heard she was good at puzzles on that reality show she did as a teenager. Not only is she smart, but Frank said she can run for days. [B]She has endurance. I think she would be great for a final.[/B] and I agree with kvm, it would have been stupid for her to volunteer herself. No way were they going to win that elimination. It would have been better if CJ never volunteered himself, but Jonna works well with Derek. [B]There is a chance that she could make it to the final[/B].[/QUOTE]
I completely agree with you. And even more than making it [I]to[/I] the final, I think she has the physical, mental, and emotional ability to make it [I]through[/I] the final.
I don't understand why everyone still says Cancun sucks. At first, I definitely thought they would, but they've won multiple challenges, so obviously they're doing something right. Derek doesn't seem like the most in-shape guy there is, but he has been keeping up with his team so far, so although CJ is gone, I think they're gonna get to the final and do fine.
She SERIOUSLY sent Jasmine into a PHYSICAL competition instead of herself when CJ was saying over and over that he wanted to be going into it with Jonna? oh oh oh okay! i see how it is. little sheep
[QUOTE=kvm1977;328219]McKenzie's matches were predetermined who was going to win--Jonna didn't even kind of try. Those teams already decided to rotate who was going to win at that point. I don't think McKenzie is nearly as weak as some are claiming but we didn't really learn anything about her on this challenge. There were only about 7 real matches...[B]Every match with St Thomas and the first 3 to 5.[/B][/QUOTE]
I just rewatched the wrestling challenge. Mackenzie vs Nany was the 3rd match following Ashley/Jasmine, Dustin/Zach before anyone started throwing matches. You can clearly tell they were going at it, plus both of their comments indicated they were going for the win. I don't see how anyone can claim Nany threw this match
That said I do agree about Jonna. That girl legit gave up in all her matches, but does anyone honestly think she would have beaten Ashley or Mackenzie had she tried?
[QUOTE]New Orleans was in a tight alliance with San Diego. Those matches were thrown and Mackenzie did not win anything. By all accounts from people who were there, she was just not a good competitor. Preston did better than she did in the arena, she was gassed halfway through.[/QUOTE]
Mackenzie did beat Nany straight up. Rewatch the oil challenge. They didn't start throwing matches until after JD vs Knight beat each other to a draw.
[QUOTE=Shogun99;328269]I just rewatched the wrestling challenge. Mackenzie vs Nany was the 3rd match following Ashley/Jasmine, Dustin/Zach before anyone started throwing matches. You can clearly tell they were going at it, plus both of their comments indicated they were going for the win. I don't see how anyone can claim Nany threw this match
That said I do agree about Jonna. That girl legit gave up in all her matches, but does anyone honestly think she would have beaten Ashley or Mackenzie had she tried?
Mackenzie did beat Nany straight up. Rewatch the oil challenge. They didn't start throwing matches until after JD vs Knight beat each other to a draw.[/QUOTE]
I don't see why not. McKenzie just barely beat Nany. It's not like she's some beast and Ashley did only straight up beat Jasmine and that's not really something to boast about.
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;328271]I don't see why not. McKenzie just barely beat Nany. It's not like she's some beast and Ashley did only straight up beat Jasmine and that's not really something to boast about.[/QUOTE]
Well she beat the same Nany that everyone is calling one of the strongest rookie girls on this challenge. Not to mention the huge size advantage McKenzie has over Jonna. And yeah Jasmine is not a big win, but Ashley's bodyslam was the highlight of the entire Challenge and the most dominant win by far in that event. It no coincidence Jonna barely even let Ashley touch her before tapping out.
I don't doubt Jonna's IQ and endurance but physically I think she is very weak. Even most of the planned wrestling matches still had some actual wrestling before someone tapped out (Derek vs Frank/CJ) but Jonna appeared to just quit right away. In fairness its hard to tell because they heavily edited out most of her matches so you can't say for sure if she gave up right away or got thrown around a bit first, but I noticed she was flat on her back vs McKenzie leading me to believe there was at least some wrestling that got edited out prior to her tapping. Its truly a shame that something as fun as oil wrestling was ruined by edits and thrown matches. They should have some type of wrestling event in all the challenges, with no loopholes to throw it w/out being penalized of course
[QUOTE=Shogun99;328272]Well she beat the same Nany that everyone is calling one of the strongest rookie girls on this challenge. Not to mention the huge size advantage McKenzie has over Jonna. And yeah Jasmine is not a big win, but Ashley's bodyslam was the highlight of the entire Challenge and the most dominant win by far in that event. It no coincidence Jonna barely even let Ashley touch her before tapping out.
I don't doubt Jonna's IQ and endurance but physically I think she is very weak. Even most of the planned wrestling matches still had some actual wrestling before someone tapped out (Derek vs Frank/CJ) but Jonna appeared to just quit right away. In fairness its hard to tell because they heavily edited out most of her matches so you can't say for sure if she gave up right away or got thrown around a bit first, but I noticed she was flat on her back vs McKenzie leading me to believe there was at least some wrestling that got edited out prior to her tapping. Its truly a shame that something as fun as oil wrestling was ruined by edits and thrown matches. They should have some type of wrestling event in all the challenges, with no loopholes to throw it w/out being penalized of course[/QUOTE]
I wholeheartedly agree that Jonna would suck at anything physical. I just don't think she'd be killed by McKenzie in oil wrestling. I'm still interested to see how she does in next week's physical mission, especially with the big alliance not there.
[QUOTE=VerbonaVerb;328070]Height has a lot to do with this challenge because you're expending less energy reaching for those balls. [/QUOTE]
That's what she said!!!
...sorry. Had to. Carry on.
[QUOTE=Nostalgic;328264]Like you said politically not athletically. Any way I got a good laugh.[/QUOTE]
I don't get how that's funny I guess you don't follow the show.
I didn't even notice Ashley's bodyslam till I just re-watched it right now. Nany only lost to her because her hand fling over, similar to Chet's lost. But what was the highlight to me of that challenge was the Zach vs Dustin. Not only was it just sad to watch on Zach's behalf, but he kept pulling his helmet and punching Dustin's back. I mean.. c'mon. Seriously... Lmaoo. But props for Dustin.
[QUOTE=cystic;328117]I'm not trying to control or censor you, I'm trying to remind you that there are more adult ways to say things than going full guns a blazing. It's a thing called tact. My opinion on the matter is that posts like yours are only perpetuating the hatred that Frank spews from his mouth on television. What is the point in that? Your hatred becomes an extension of his. Is that really productive? By saying things like "I wish someone would personally low blow him or beat him to a bloody pulp", you're no better than he is. I won't even bother with the "two wrongs" cliche, as I'm sure you've heard it at least once before. Honestly, I feel the same way most of you guys do, and yet I haven't verbally painted a picture of Frank being tortured on here.
[/QUOTE]
I completely understand where you're coming from but sometimes with people like him the only reasonable way to talk about him IS to stoop down to his level otherwise you're just lying to yourself about how you really feel about this guy.
And I'm pretty sure he acts like a ******* and a hypocrite when not on television judging by his tweets.
****, Adam Royer called him and zach out and neither of them replied which just shows how hypocritical they are saying they'll "bury" people ****.
[QUOTE=Shogun99;328269]
That said I do agree about Jonna. That girl legit gave up in all her matches, but does anyone honestly think she would have beaten Ashley or Mackenzie had she tried?
[/QUOTE]
I really don't know. I've never seen Ashley or Jonna even try to do something that physical. Personally, I don't think McKenzie, Jonna or Ashley are really suited for something that physical to be perfectly honest.
You do realize Jonna didn't give up because she didn't care though, right? They were making sure everyone in their alliance was safe
So, anyways... back to Battle of the Seasons:
I was amazed that Frank would say all those things, talk like he was a force to be reckoned with, etc., and then say that it was everyone else that was being dramatic. I sincerely hope this guy gets help one day. I know it won't happen, but I truly wish for him to become a sane person.
Conversely, Dustin was a bit of a drama queen himself. I liked him leading up to this episode. I didn't like him on RW: Vegas because of how dramatic he was ("No one has ever, EVER, disrespected me this badly in the history of everdom") -- and also because I was team Mike-Mike (and only watched the first few episodes of the season). I liked him on Battle of the Sexes because he seemed rather calm and collected on the episodes he was there for. This season he had been pretty good, and I was happy when he didn't let Frank get to him earlier when Frank said "I bet you can't wait to get your hands on a man again."
Then this episode happened, and he was just obnoxious. I would have been upset too if Trishelle was on my team and started being like that in the water, but she seemed to be correct in what we were shown (neither Dustin or Alton asked her if she was okay). Then, the way he was talking to her was so rude, even when he said he wasn't being rude! He was so condescending and then he decided to talk so softly, which was just weird and annoying. Then at the end during the elimination he upped the drama tenfold-- "Don't leave me here with her." "You're my brother, you can't leave." "I need you here." And then at the end when Brooklyn tried to host an intervention of sorts, he was just SO dramatic it was hard to watch.
This season had been really good up until this point. I hadn't really been THAT turned off by anyone, other than Frank, but then this episode was kind of unbearable. It's called the [B]Challenge[/B]. It runs about 47 minutes without commercials. We were given about 10 minutes of legitimate competition, including the challenge itself and the elimination round. The remaining 37 minutes was ALL drama... and about 25 of those minutes was the same fight.
I hope the Challenge gets renewed so we can get some vets in the game to show Frank how it's really played.
Having said all that, I thought Nany took going home like a champ.
[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;328281]I don't get how that's funny I guess you don't follow the show.[/QUOTE]
Been following the show longer than you for about 11 or 12 years.
[QUOTE=CzarEric;328326]
I hope the Challenge gets renewed so we can get some vets in the game to show Frank how it's really played.
[/QUOTE]
This^^^^^^^^^^^
When you have a partner it isn't a one on one elimination. There wasn't a single one on one elimination round during FM, FM2, Rivals, Exes or this season. All partners. Even if we want to pretend it was, it wasn't, then Johnny > Nehemiah. And we can say without question that Kenny lost to Brandon & Ty during Rivals as well--so he'd be 0-3, right? Using your logic... Kenny also lost to Abram on the Island if we want to continue to change the definition of one on one elimination rounds.
Technically Kenny was the leader on FM2 but let's not pretend that Jenn & Ryan didn't have all the power. They could have easily went with Wes and completely screwed over Kenny, right? Kenny was being "a nice guy" during FM2 and even admitted that it wasn't the best strategic move to work with Jenn & Ryan. He was trying to be loyal to his friends more than anything. Kenny got very lucky as it turned it. The Inferno III was by far Kenny's best challenge IMO though FM2 was also great for him. Those are the only two.
I love Marie and Jasmine for calling out Trishelle for being a hypocrite and a coward. Jasmine talked about how she was a hypocrite for calling Jonna a ho for not going in when she did the same thing. And Marie said Trishelle was going on about how she's a mama for Nany and that she would step up for Nany and then she was corny for pulling the **** she did. Love these two girls for telling it like it is.
[QUOTE=Camille;328428]I love Marie and Jasmine for calling out Trishelle for being a hypocrite and a coward. Jasmine talked about how she was a hypocrite for calling Jonna a ho for not going in when she did the same thing. And Marie said Trishelle was going on about how she's a mama for Nany and that she would step up for Nany and then she was corny for pulling the **** she did. Love these two girls for telling it like it is.[/QUOTE]
I completely agree. I love how Jasmine realized how bad of a friend Jonna is and how Jonna was happier that Zach stay than CJ and Jasmine.
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