The Challenge: Generic Thread

[QUOTE=mph922;332411]Yeah, well Kina and Susie worked together on RR: Viewer's Revenge. Not a challenge, but still. I actually always wondered if they remained close after that season.[/QUOTE] I think I watched a total of 2 episodes of VR so I just don't remember that well

you can buy some seasons on itunes....sadly they don't offer a lot of the older ones...and the ones they do offer are random but they currently have: The Gauntlet 2 The Gauntlet 3 The Duel The Duel 2 The Ruins Battle of the Exes The Island Fresh Meat 2 Rivals Battle of the Seasons Cutthroat I wish the older ones would get released. I re-watched the original Gauntlet.....that is prob. one of my favorite challenges, that one and the two battle of the sexes. I would def. buy a DVD set...but for now I hope they release all of the seasons on iTunes.

[QUOTE=Lola88;332408]Agreed. I think people let their personal feelings toward certain competitors get in their way of their logical judgement and evaluation of that person as a competitor. Susie and Sarah are girls that have priced themselves but people still say they are "sub-par" or "below average"[/QUOTE] YOU'RE CRAZYYY ONCE AGAIN, to think that Susie is up there with ONCE AGAIN Laurel, Rachel R, Evelyn, Kelly Anne, Sarah, Emily, Tonya. She's a GOOD competitor but comparing her to the older school girls (ie Holly, Emily, Ellen, Ruthie (her prime)) & The new girls (Emily, Kelly Anne, Sarah & laurel) she's sub-par. She played a good game in a sea of average females. Next to Ibis (who i LOVE) yes, Susie is a better competitor as well as with Johanna. Susie aligned with the weaker girls on Ruins knowing her position would never be threatened, on top of using Ev, Tonya & Veronica as pawns. Her game was threatened when Ev quit, Tonya Dq'd & Veronica was sent home. NO Matter what Compared to the 3 of them plus Katie & Johanna, Susie & Ibis, Susie was in the most favored position because she hadn't burned any bridges as far as the men were concerned. I still think had Katie, Veronica, Tonya, Evelyn, Syrus, Derrick & Darrell had teamed up they could have taken over the game as alluded to what Veronica & Syrus were trying to do. & according to an interview with Katie (wish i could find the link) She said that she & veronica were looking out for eachother as well as Katie looking out for Tonya. Susie is sub-par. Great TV, Great strategist, athletically average, overall sub-par.

[QUOTE=MBlaze;332416]YOU'RE CRAZYYY ONCE AGAIN, to think that Susie is up there with ONCE AGAIN Laurel, Rachel R, Evelyn, Kelly Anne, Sarah, Emily, Tonya. She's a GOOD competitor but comparing her to the older school girls (ie Holly, Emily, Ellen, Ruthie (her prime)) & The new girls (Emily, Kelly Anne, Sarah & laurel) she's sub-par. She played a good game in a sea of average females. Next to Ibis (who i LOVE) yes, Susie is a better competitor as well as with Johanna. Susie aligned with the weaker girls on Ruins knowing her position would never be threatened, on top of using Ev, Tonya & Veronica as pawns. Her game was threatened when Ev quit, Tonya Dq'd & Veronica was sent home. NO Matter what Compared to the 3 of them plus Katie & Johanna, Susie & Ibis, Susie was in the most favored position because she hadn't burned any bridges as far as the men were concerned. I still think had Katie, Veronica, Tonya, Evelyn, Syrus, Derrick & Darrell had teamed up they could have taken over the game as alluded to what Veronica & Syrus were trying to do. & according to an interview with Katie (wish i could find the link) She said that she & veronica were looking out for eachother as well as Katie looking out for Tonya. Susie is sub-par. Great TV, [B]Great strategist, athletically average, overall sub-par[/B].[/QUOTE] How does "average" athleticism and great strategizing equate to an overall "sub-par" competitor? Susie has schemed her way to 2 wins .. she is hardly sub-par. Especially considering KellyAnne, Emily, Sarah, and Laurel have a combined 0 wins in 13 total challenges. She may not be up there athletically, but overall she is up there.

[QUOTE=alaskak94;332433]How does "average" athleticism and great strategizing equate to an overall "sub-par" competitor? Susie has schemed her way to 2 wins .. she is hardly sub-par. Especially considering KellyAnne, Emily, Sarah, and Laurel have a combined 0 wins in 13 total challenges. She may not be up there athletically, but overall she is up there.[/QUOTE] Well you do have to keep in mind that Susie never did a Duel or partner based one. Also the two finals she won, one she literally did nothing and the other she was physically carried through on the guys' shoulders

[QUOTE=alaskak94;332433]How does "average" athleticism and great strategizing equate to an overall "sub-par" competitor? Susie has schemed her way to 2 wins .. she is hardly sub-par. Especially considering KellyAnne, Emily, Sarah, and Laurel have a combined 0 wins in 13 total challenges. She may not be up there athletically, but overall she is up there.[/QUOTE] Susie never proved herself in The Gauntlet 2. Never stood out in missions and literally did nothing in the final mission. The Inferno 3 had Cara throwing like every mission so Susie wouldn't have to go into the Inferno. When she finally went in after Paula kicked her butt in the mission, she only won because Jenn's carabiner was jammed (which was so contrived by the producers). The Ruins had her align herself with weak girls (Ibis and Johanna) who would definitely go into the ruins over her unless the other team chose. I give her props for beating Kimberly in the ruins but that's it. She had to be carried in the final mission by the guys...Lost the final on the inferno 3 because Cara and her were the weak links. Do people not remember Susie's poor performance on "Extreme Challenge". Her team openly stated on the reunion show that Ayanna was a much better asset than Susie was.

[QUOTE=MBlaze;332416]YOU'RE CRAZYYY ONCE AGAIN, to think that Susie is up there with ONCE AGAIN Laurel, Rachel R, Evelyn, Kelly Anne, Sarah, Emily, Tonya. She's a GOOD competitor but comparing her to the older school girls (ie Holly, Emily, Ellen, Ruthie (her prime)) & The new girls (Emily, Kelly Anne, Sarah & laurel) she's sub-par. She played a good game in a sea of average females. Next to Ibis (who i LOVE) yes, Susie is a better competitor as well as with Johanna. Susie aligned with the weaker girls on Ruins knowing her position would never be threatened, on top of using Ev, Tonya & Veronica as pawns. Her game was threatened when Ev quit, Tonya Dq'd & Veronica was sent home. NO Matter what Compared to the 3 of them plus Katie & Johanna, Susie & Ibis, Susie was in the most favored position because she hadn't burned any bridges as far as the men were concerned. I still think had Katie, Veronica, Tonya, Evelyn, Syrus, Derrick & Darrell had teamed up they could have taken over the game as alluded to what Veronica & Syrus were trying to do. & according to an interview with Katie (wish i could find the link) She said that she & veronica were looking out for eachother as well as Katie looking out for Tonya. Susie is sub-par. Great TV, Great strategist, athletically average, overall sub-par.[/QUOTE] Okay my bad I forget your opinions are all that matters because they are based on facts *eye roll* So over this "mature discussion"

[QUOTE=jhl182;332435]Susie never proved herself in The Gauntlet 2. Never stood out in missions and literally did nothing in the final mission. The Inferno 3 had Cara throwing like every mission so Susie wouldn't have to go into the Inferno. When she finally went in after Paula kicked her butt in the mission, she only won because Jenn's carabiner was jammed (which was so contrived by the producers). The Ruins had her align herself with weak girls (Ibis and Johanna) who would definitely go into the ruins over her unless the other team chose. I give her props for beating Kimberly in the ruins but that's it. She had to be carried in the final mission by the guys...Lost the final on the inferno 3 because Cara and her were the weak links. Do people not remember Susie's poor performance on "Extreme Challenge". Her team openly stated on the reunion show that Ayanna was a much better asset than Susie was.[/QUOTE] Lol what? How would you know that there was producer manipulation in any challenge? Were you there? Btw Extreme Challenge was a decade ago, she got better. And Cara was weak, her throwing missions on Inferno 3 had nothing to do with Susie's 3 life shield wins, and her alliance with the weak girls on the ruins had nothing to do with her 3 ruins wins either. Sorry.

[QUOTE=Psy4potato;332415]you can buy some seasons on itunes....sadly they don't offer a lot of the older ones...and the ones they do offer are random I wish the older ones would get released. I re-watched the original Gauntlet.....that is prob. one of my favorite challenges, that one and the two battle of the sexes. I would def. buy a DVD set...but for now I hope they release all of the seasons on iTunes.[/QUOTE] That's not really what I'm looking for and I don't do anything ************** so it's not even an option. What I'm eventually hoping for is a digitally remastered HD complete first-to-last season collection with an insert including character bios of some of the big names. This series has (currently) 23 seasons spanning 15 years, which doesn't happen often anymore in TV. It's extremely worthy of a collector's treatment such as this and I would easily pay $100+ for it.

[QUOTE=Lola88;332437]Lol what? How would you know that there was producer manipulation in any challenge? Were you there? Btw Extreme Challenge was a decade ago, she got better. And Cara was weak, her throwing missions on Inferno 3 had nothing to do with Susie's 3 life shield wins, and her alliance with the weak girls on the ruins had nothing to do with her 3 ruins wins either. Sorry.[/QUOTE] Producer manipulation? Oh, the stories I could tell you... (Actually, there are a bunch of examples from past challenges in challenge threads here since the beginning of this website.)

yeah Susie is average at best. I wouldn't want her on my team, I wouldn't gain anything.

[QUOTE=TheCloser;332453]yeah Susie is average at best. I wouldn't want her on my team, I wouldn't gain anything.[/QUOTE] I think Susie is one of the best strategists to ever appear on a challenge. She has been the moving force behind quite a few things attributed to others, including JEK. Perhaps she will read this and comment.

[QUOTE=V1man;332454]I think Susie is one of the best strategists to ever appear on a challenge. She has been the moving force behind quite a few things attributed to others, including JEK. Perhaps she will read this and comment.[/QUOTE] Yeah I would like her to comment because Honestly I don't see her(or anyone else on this show)being a good strategist.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;332457]Yeah I would like her to comment because Honestly I don't see her(or anyone else on this show)being a good strategist.[/QUOTE] She was the principle strategist during The Ruins. The rookies demise -- and sadly Evelyn's, too -- was Susie's doing. I was impressed, but perhaps you have different standards.

[QUOTE=V1man;332459]She was the principle strategist during The Ruins. The rookies demise -- and sadly Evelyn's, too -- was Susie's doing. I was impressed, but perhaps you have different standards.[/QUOTE] I dont think shes a good strategist, well kinda, what she does works but I honestly think shes a ***** and a hypocrite. The whole Evelyn thing seemed like it backfired on them unless they wanted Ev to quit, and she goes and criticizes Ev for quitting and Wes for throwing challenges when she did the exact same thing on I3, and later on in the ruins she threatened JEK by saying she would throw the final. And then on the reunion you gotta love when she says "omg how can you betray your own team?!??" To me she just acts like such a ***** and theres plenty of examples why which im too lazy to name.

[QUOTE=Blue123;332463]I dont think shes a good strategist, well kinda, what she does works but I honestly think shes a ***** and a hypocrite. The whole Evelyn thing seemed like it backfired on them unless they wanted Ev to quit, and she goes and criticizes Ev for quitting and Wes for throwing challenges when she did the exact same thing on I3, and later on in the ruins she threatened JEK by saying she would throw the final. And then on the reunion you gotta love when she says "omg how can you betray your own team?!??" To me she just acts like such a ***** and theres plenty of examples why which im too lazy to name.[/QUOTE] You can call her a hypocrite but that doesn't mean her strategy wasn't picture perfect. She wisely wanted Evelyn to take out KellyAnne. Evelyn quitting didn't hurt the Champions at all as we saw throughout the Ruins Also, as Susie continually pointed out, how did she throw challenges during the Inferno 3 when she won 3 life savers? There's no logic to that. And saying she would throw the final if they didn't give her the matchup she wanted was good strategy. The problem with Wes was he had no power when he was making threats--Susie did. Susie's not on the level of Emily, Evelyn, Laurel, Rachel but she's far from sub-par as people keep saying. And when you factor in her as a strategist she's right there with the rest of them. Let's be honest Emily has never had power, Rachel & Laurel have rarely made smart decisions and Evelyn is a great strategist but doesn't have enough "friends" in power for it to matter.

[QUOTE=V1man;332454]I think Susie is one of the best strategists to ever appear on a challenge. She has been the moving force behind quite a few things attributed to others, including JEK. Perhaps she will read this and comment.[/QUOTE] She is a good player when it comes to saving herself, which is really beneficial for her and that matters. But If we were on a team, I would definitely watch my back because I do not trust her because she'll do anything to save herself. As a competitor she is not impressive. Therefore, I would not want her on my team.

Wait, are you guys discussing Susie? Like, who cares about that *****? But I guess that is what y'all do in the off season. Just sit around arguing about the unimportant people like David and Susie. [QUOTE=MBlaze;332374]Jenn is at most an average competitor. Kimberly is alright better than Jenn without a doubt. As far as Susie, i wouldnt downplay her scheming ability. she's a good competitor, shes just not the best. look I LOVE Ibis but Susie is better than her & Kina knew that but wouldnt pull a Derrick (Ruins) & backstab her & would obviously choose Susie over her & I'd say beat her. I want to see Susie go up against a fiery competitor like Kina or Aneesa who would give her a run. & did we forget she lost to Angel on RR:VR? lol she "threw it" but that doesnt equate to a perfect record. & [b]sidebar we all forget how Veronica smoked Jodi on the inferno.[/b] I think theres a fine distinguish between great competitors & great eliminators. We have Jodi =great competitor but we havent seen much elimination wise same w/ Rachel & Laurel. & then theres competitors that do good in both fields such as Kina, Coral & Sarah. & then Aneesa aka the queen of eliminations. Susie doesnt fall under any of those. She's sub-par. Good but not the best.[/QUOTE] This made me laugh... I, of course, am assuming that this was a joke.

Don't say that about Susie :/ She's extremely intelligent; she's a PH.D candidate. She knows how to play this game. She is one of the best women to ever play the game. She may not be as athletic as Ev, but overall, she is on the level of Rachel, Ev, Laurel, the two Hollys from Road Rules, etc. She had it rough on the final mission on The Ruins: she was the only female. I think she deserves a break. She took out Kimberly, who at the time was one of the most promising rookie girls. Susie is above average athletically and was the second best girl on the Champions team besides Ev.

Susie's done 3 challenges...she's reached 3 finals, won twice, won 23 team competitions, won all 4 all elimination rounds and won 3 out of 4 pardons she was eligible for. This is sub-par on what level? And this is before we even being to consider she's a great strategist. If Susie's subpar then I'm terrified what people believe is par (average)

[QUOTE=kvm1977;332469]You can call her a hypocrite but that doesn't mean her strategy wasn't picture perfect. She wisely wanted Evelyn to take out KellyAnne. Evelyn quitting didn't hurt the Champions at all as we saw throughout the Ruins Also, as Susie continually pointed out, how did she throw challenges during the Inferno 3 when she won 3 life savers? There's no logic to that. And saying she would throw the final if they didn't give her the matchup she wanted was good strategy. The problem with Wes was he had no power when he was making threats--Susie did. Susie's not on the level of Emily, Evelyn, Laurel, Rachel but she's far from sub-par as people keep saying. And when you factor in her as a strategist she's right there with the rest of them. Let's be honest Emily has never had power, Rachel & Laurel have rarely made smart decisions and Evelyn is a great strategist but doesn't have enough "friends" in power for it to matter.[/QUOTE] On I3 when she had her friends not try so it made the whole team's average time slow so therefore making them loose to the other team, and please its easy to win lifeshields when people dont try, the only person trying was Paula. So ya she didnt throw any missions but she did by association. And ya we all know the ruins was easy, but it wasnt really fair for the team to do that to Ev. And Wes only threw the challenge cause the team wouldnt work with him, they were just gona throw him in every time, they never did that to Susie, they were willing to work with her so she had no reason to threaten them. Its not like her head was on the chopping block, in fact Ev was fine with going in every time just not against Kelly Anne so I dont get what Susie's problem was, theres no need to act like that unless your back is against the wall and hers wasnt she just wanted it easy, in the end she wanted Casey in the ruins instead of Kelly Anne or Sarah, and Kelly Anne and Sarah gave them a run for their money in the final. She may be above par cause she gets far but for someone who is undefeated shes a wimp, I dont expect her to be Ev and be willing to go against anyone but going in against Casey almost lost them the challenge when they dominated the whole game. And yes to the guy above in the off season we ramble about old random issues.

[QUOTE=V1man;332454]I think Susie is one of the best strategists to ever appear on a challenge. She has been the moving force behind quite a few things attributed to others, including JEK. Perhaps she will read this and comment.[/QUOTE] I mean she's okay but not the best. That is subjective.

[QUOTE=Nostalgic;332480]I mean she's okay but not the best. That is subjective.[/QUOTE] They said "one of the best". She's far better than okay. I really don't understand this standard. The objective is to reach finals--she did that 3 of 3 times and twice she was they key strategist. Was Coral better? Was Veronica better? Others can be argued but I really can't believe anyone would try to claim Susie wasn't one of the best strategists. Debating her "competitiveness" I can kind of understand but "okay" as a strategist--dear God.

[QUOTE=Blue123;332463]I dont think shes a good strategist, well kinda, what she does works but I honestly think shes a ***** and a hypocrite. ... " To me she just acts like such a ***** and theres plenty of examples why which im too lazy to name.[/QUOTE] If you decide to engage in a dialogue with me, I'd suggest you avoid "lazy." It's unbecoming. I didn't come to be an admirer of Susie's abilities until 1) other cast members told me far more about her than I was aware, and 2) I came to know and admire her away from MTV. We have mutual interests. [QUOTE=TheCloser;332470]She is a good player when it comes to saving herself, which is really beneficial for her and that matters. But If we were on a team, I would definitely watch my back because I do not trust her because she'll do anything to save herself. As a competitor she is not impressive. Therefore, I would not want her on my team.[/QUOTE] Better the Devil you know... She is not someone I've suggested cast members oppose. Far better to be inside her circle than outside of it. [QUOTE=_tasha;332472]Wait, are you guys discussing Susie? Like, who cares about that *****? But I guess that is what y'all do in the off season. Just sit around arguing about the unimportant people like David and Susie. [/QUOTE] Well, _tahsa, personally I'm not privy to your street cred which allows you to state as fact that Susie is unimportant. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to whom you know are the important ones so we won't have to waste our time discussing anyone else.

It is probably also worth a reminder here that Susie is a vevmo member, and there are rules...

I know this kinda strays from the current topic but does being strategic really mean anything? I mean I feel like with these shows it seems to be all about politics.. and that doesn't leave a whole lot of room for strategic gameplay. I can't really remember a time on these shows where someone had to navigate their way through the game on a strategy base like we see on shows like Survivor, Big Brother Etc.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;332487]I know this kinda strays from the current topic but does being strategic really mean anything? I mean I feel like with these shows it seems to be all about politics.. and that doesn't leave a whole lot of room for strategic gameplay. I can't really remember a time on these shows where someone had to navigate their way through the game on a strategy base like we see on shows like Survivor, Big Brother Etc.[/QUOTE] Politics is a form of strategy.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;332487]I know this kinda strays from the current topic but does being strategic really mean anything? I mean I feel like with these shows it seems to be all about politics.. and that doesn't leave a whole lot of room for strategic gameplay. I can't really remember a time on these shows where someone had to navigate their way through the game on a strategy base like we see on shows like Survivor, Big Brother Etc.[/QUOTE] I always saw the game in three categories. Physical- which benefit the likes of CT, Darrell, Rachel R, Emily. S etc.. Social game- Mark long, Kenny, Theo V, Timmy are the names that come to mind. Politics/ strategy- Where the likes of Johnny bananas, Evelyn, Susie, Evan, Wes (duel he played a great political game). There are lot of players who are good in all three or both. Like Mark long is really good in all three. Coral and veronica can be considered as well for Social and strategy. Anybody else see it different?

[QUOTE=TheCloser;332497]I always saw the game in three categories. Physical- which benefit the likes of CT, Darrell, Rachel R, Emily. S etc.. Social game- Mark long, Kenny, Theo V, Timmy are the names that come to mind. Politics/ strategy- Where the likes of Johnny bananas, Evelyn, Susie, Evan, Wes (duel he played a great political game). There are lot of players who are good in all three or both. Like Mark long is really good in all three. Coral and veronica can be considered as well for Social and strategy. Anybody else see it different?[/QUOTE] I think that's a good way to put it, although I think the people that play good social games are almost always good at politics/strategy and make it really far. Besides Paula, who almost always gets backstabbed, is there anyone that plays a good social game that isn't good a politics / strategy?