The Challenge: Generic Thread

[QUOTE=alaskak94;332499]I think that's a good way to put it, although I think the people that play good social games are almost always good at politics/strategy and make it really far. Besides Paula, who almost always gets backstabbed, is there anyone that plays a good social game that isn't good a politics / strategy?[/QUOTE] Ya paula is always getting screwed! And I think Kenny doesn't play a great strategical game, seems like he relies on JB and Evan to make those decisions. On rivals it made him look like he let Wes run the politics. It may be editing though. If it weren't for laurel being his partner on fresh meat 2 he may have gone home early. I also think Leroy has a good social and physical game, but strategy may be his weak point. This could be the fact of only doing two shows. Politics/ Strategy seems to get better with an individual due to how long one has been doing the shows.

[QUOTE=kvm1977;332475]Susie's done 3 challenges...she's reached 3 finals, won twice, won 23 team competitions, won all 4 all elimination rounds and won 3 out of 4 pardons she was eligible for. This is sub-par on what level? And this is before we even being to consider she's a great strategist. If Susie's subpar then I'm terrified what people believe is par (average)[/QUOTE] Susie's done 4 challenges. Extreme Challenge, Gauntlet 2, Inferno 3 and The Ruins. She's won 2 finals and lost 2.

[QUOTE=kvm1977;332469]You can call her a hypocrite but that doesn't mean her strategy wasn't picture perfect. She wisely wanted Evelyn to take out KellyAnne. Evelyn quitting didn't hurt the Champions at all as we saw throughout the Ruins Also, as Susie continually pointed out, how did she throw challenges during the Inferno 3 when she won 3 life savers? There's no logic to that. And saying she would throw the final if they didn't give her the matchup she wanted was good strategy. The problem with Wes was he had no power when he was making threats--Susie did. Susie's not on the level of Emily, Evelyn, Laurel, Rachel but she's far from sub-par as people keep saying. And when you factor in her as a strategist she's right there with the rest of them. Let's be honest Emily has never had power, Rachel & Laurel have rarely made smart decisions and Evelyn is a great strategist but doesn't have enough "friends" in power for it to matter.[/QUOTE] Susie had her team throw a mission after she was picked to go into the very first Inferno to send in Rachael (RW: Austin) because she was scared. She legit said that on camera and also said Rachael had a better chance of winning an Inferno than her. Then Cara threw all of the missions in order to give Susie the lifesaver. Colie was horrible so she would never win the lifesaver and Paula was the only one who was actually trying. Also, if people are going to take away Veronica's win over Jodi on the Inferno 2, then the same should be for Susie's win over Jenn's on the Inferno 3 as Jenn's carabiner was mysteriously "jammed". Jodi lost because she wasn't tightening her cloth enough and Veronica was making sure it was tight while spinning. V's win was a fair win. Production LOVES Susie and they wanted her to make it to the final on The Inferno 3. They made sure she beat Jen during that Inferno. Johnny Banana's said that during The Ruins, production told him if he ever screwed Susie over and had her not be in the final, that they would never invite him back. He said that on camera.

[QUOTE=jhl182;332505]Susie had her team throw a mission after she was picked to go into the very first Inferno to send in Rachael (RW: Austin) because she was scared. She legit said that on camera and also said Rachael had a better chance of winning an Inferno than her. Then Cara threw all of the missions in order to give Susie the lifesaver. Colie was horrible so she would never win the lifesaver and Paula was the only one who was actually trying. Also, if people are going to take away Veronica's win over Jodi on the Inferno 2, then the same should be for Susie's win over Jenn's on the Inferno 3 as Jenn's carabiner was mysteriously "jammed". Jodi lost because she wasn't tightening her cloth enough and Veronica was making sure it was tight while spinning. V's win was a fair win. Production LOVES Susie and they wanted her to make it to the final on The Inferno 3. They made sure she beat Jen during that Inferno. Johnny Banana's said that during The Ruins, [B]production told him if he ever screwed Susie over and had her not be in the final, that they would never invite him back. He said that on camera.[/B][/QUOTE] He really should've screwed over Susie if that's the case.

[QUOTE=jhl182;332505]Johnny Banana's said that during The Ruins, production told him if he ever screwed Susie over and had her not be in the final, that they would never invite him back. He said that on camera.[/QUOTE] That was probably because they didn't want complaints of sexism rather than wanting Susie to win.

[QUOTE=jhl182;332505] Johnny Banana's said that during The Ruins, production told him if he ever screwed Susie over and had her not be in the final, that they would never invite him back. He said that on camera.[/QUOTE] When was this? link?

[QUOTE=gbp02;332516]When was this? link?[/QUOTE] It was either on the S#!t they didn't show or one of those extra videos.

[QUOTE=gbp02;332516]When was this? link?[/QUOTE] It wasn't on TV it was on Derrick's podcast...and it's the one that's not on iTunes you'd have to look on his site. He said production loves Susie and threatened that JEK and Derrick would never be brought back if they threw the last challenge. He also suggested that Susie's elimination vs Jenn was rigged.

But Johnny did throw the last challenge when he dropped the flowers on purpose and then was invited back for Cutthroat, Rivals and Exes. So I guess the threat wasnt enough for him to not try to get rid of her and I guess production didn't stick to their word.

[QUOTE=rwrrfan;332524]But Johnny did throw the last challenge when he dropped the flowers on purpose and then was invited back for Cutthroat, Rivals and Exes. So I guess the threat wasnt enough for him to not try to get rid of her and I guess production didn't stick to their word.[/QUOTE] Well Susie made it to the finals and won so I guess production was happy lol. Susie's strategy during that challenge would've failed if the challengers had actually won missions. If the challengers won the mission when Veronica went up against Kelly Anne, that match up wouldn't have happened. Veronica was friends with Casey, Kelly Anne and Kimberly on that challenge and Kelly Anne would've thrown in Johanna or Susie into the Ruins. But because the Champions kept winning, Susie pretty much had all of the power. Maybe that was Veronica's strategy? Befriend the other team so if they won the mission, they wouldn't pick her to go into the ruins. The Ruins would've been a lot more interesting if the challengers had actually won a bunch of missions :T

[QUOTE=jhl182;332504]Susie's done 4 challenges. Extreme Challenge, Gauntlet 2, Inferno 3 and The Ruins. She's won 2 finals and lost 2.[/QUOTE] I don't count the first few challenges because the format was entirely different However, that still means she's 4 for 4 in reaching finals Winning them or not has nothing to do with the discussion Do Emily & Laurel suck because they've reached finals every time but haven't won? Of course not Susie stats speak for themselves...some people just can't get past their hatred/dislike of certain people to give them credit And if Johnny said that on camera he would have never been brought back--if you're going to make a claim provide the proof.

[QUOTE=kvm1977;332536]I don't count the first few challenges because the format was entirely different However, that still means she's 4 for 4 in reaching finals Winning them or not has nothing to do with the discussion Do Emily & Laurel suck because they've reached finals every time but haven't won? Of course not Susie stats speak for themselves...some people just can't get past their hatred/dislike of certain people to give them credit And if Johnny said that on camera he would have never been brought back--if you're going to make a claim provide the proof.[/QUOTE] read the older posts, somebody answered it. It actually wasn't on tv but he said it on Derricks podcast. Extreme Challenge still had various physical missions each episode. What has Susie done on the Gauntlet 2 and the Inferno 3?

[QUOTE=jhl182;332537]read the older posts, somebody answered it. It actually wasn't on tv but he said it on Derricks podcast. Extreme Challenge still had various physical missions each episode. [B]What has Susie done on the Gauntlet 2 and the Inferno 3?[/B][/QUOTE] Won 3 pardons and made the finals on both...and won one of the challenges. Do I need to list her stats again? Provide the link to the podcast...

[QUOTE=kvm1977;332538]Won 3 pardons and made the finals on both...and won one of the challenges. Do I need to list her stats again? Provide the link to the podcast...[/QUOTE] Dude, she won Gauntlet 2 BY DOING NOTHING! She literally won the final by watching 4 other people eat a giant potato. I don't think Susie's bad but you can't just throw out a bunch of numbers without context and act like they mean anything.

[QUOTE=Nightwolf;332539]Dude, she won Gauntlet 2 BY DOING NOTHING! She literally won the final by watching 4 other people eat a giant potato. I don't think Susie's bad but you can't just throw out a bunch of numbers without context and act like they mean anything.[/QUOTE] Let's not pretend everyone else did something during their win on the Gauntlet II either. Landon, Alton, MJ & Kina also did nothing but watch the final. Hell, should anyone but Ibis get credit for that win? She reached the final and she won...why is this discredited? Hatred?

[QUOTE=kvm1977;332540]Let's not pretend everyone else did something during their win on the Gauntlet II either. Landon, Alton, MJ & Kina also did nothing but watch the final. Hell, should anyone but Ibis get credit for that win? She reached the final and she won...why is this discredited? Hatred?[/QUOTE] It's discredited because she isn't a powerhouse female. She isn't an athlete, she's just a personality. Are you saying Susie is top five or 10 female competitors?

[QUOTE=r3iKo;332541]It's discredited because she isn't a powerhouse female. She isn't an athlete, she's just a personality. Are you saying Susie is top five or 10 female competitors?[/QUOTE] Susie's a top 5-10 player when you include all aspects. No one has said a top 5 competitor but she's not "sub-par" as has been ridiculously stated by some. She's an above average competitor. Again, her track record speaks volumes regardless of what people think of her

[QUOTE=kvm1977;332543]Susie's a top 5-10 player when you include all aspects. No one has said a top 5 competitor but she's not "sub-par" as has been ridiculously stated by some. She's an above average competitor. Again, her track record speaks volumes regardless of what people think of her[/QUOTE] If anything, she's sub-par. Besides seeing her get wins by stacked teams, what has she done? All I've seen her do is her cry, and drag her teams down. Sarah Greyson is 5 and 0 in eliminations, does that mean she's top 10? No. Hell no. What she did was remarkable, don't get me wrong, but she's nothing special. Susie hasn't been tested. She's been very fortunate.

[QUOTE=r3iKo;332545]If anything, she's sub-par. Besides seeing her get wins by stacked teams, what has she done? All I've seen her do is her cry, and drag her teams down. Sarah Greyson is 5 and 0 in eliminations, does that mean she's top 10? No. Hell no. What she did was remarkable, don't get me wrong, but she's nothing special. Susie hasn't been tested. She's been very fortunate.[/QUOTE] I can't even discuss this because people refuse to put their bias aside. So, keep hating--you can't provide a single stat to back up your argument. I'll deal with facts--you create reasons that have no validity to discredit them

[QUOTE=kvm1977;332548]I can't even discuss this because people refuse to put their bias aside. So, keep hating--you can't provide a single stat to back up your argument. I'll deal with facts--you create reasons that have no validity to discredit them[/QUOTE] Susie didn't do so hot on the Inferno 3. She was the first girl to be nominated into the inferno and then she convinced her entire team to throw the mission so she can win the lifesaver and make Rachael go. Then Cara threw every mission in order for Susie to get the lifeshield. I was really surprised at how well Tonya was doing on the missions. Tonya did really well that season.

[QUOTE=jhl182;332551]Susie didn't so hot on the Inferno 3. She was the first girl to be nominated into the inferno and then she convinced her entire team to throw the mission so she can win the lifesaver and make Rachael go. Then Cara threw every mission in order for Susie to get the lifeshield. I was really surprised at how well Tonya was doing on the missions. Tonya did really well that season.[/QUOTE] The OTHER team picked her to go into the inferno. Convincing her entire team to throw a mission to her is a pretty damn good strategic move, isn't it? And, let's not forget that no girl on the "Bad Guys" won that LS--it wasn't easy and she likely still wins if Paula & Colie don't throw it. She "won" three life shields--Paula didn't hand her all of them--and she did better than Evelyn in at least 2 of the life shield missions. Tonya did well that season but she was safe because the "Good Guys" were never going to nominate her because they thought she could hurt them in a final

[QUOTE=kvm1977;332538] Provide the link to the podcast...[/QUOTE] There's no direct link to it but it's not particularly difficult to find. UltimateChallengeRadio.com -> Pod Archives -> Page 10 -> "MTV Challenge Hall of Fame REVEALED". You'll have to do the listening portion yourself.

[QUOTE=kvm1977;332554]The OTHER team picked her to go into the inferno. Convincing her entire team to throw a mission to her is a pretty damn good strategic move, isn't it? And, let's not forget that no girl on the "Bad Guys" won that LS--it wasn't easy and she likely still wins if Paula & Colie don't throw it. She "won" three life shields--Paula didn't hand her all of them--and she did better than Evelyn in at least 2 of the life shield missions. Tonya did well that season but she was safe because the "Good Guys" were never going to nominate her because they thought she could hurt them in a final[/QUOTE] No they didn't vote for Tonya because they were scared. Cara even said that during the deliberation saying it's crazy to pick tonya to go into an inferno because she's insane. Probably judging from the 2 inferno's she won on the Inferno 2. The good guys team wanted Aneesa in the final because of her injured knee.

[QUOTE=jhl182;332563]No they didn't vote for Tonya because they were scared. Cara even said that during the deliberation saying it's crazy to pick tonya to go into an inferno because she's insane. Probably judging from the 2 inferno's she won on the Inferno 2. The good guys team wanted Aneesa in the final because of her injured knee.[/QUOTE] Then explain why they picked Aneesa to go into the final Inferno? The truth is ideally they were hoping that the Bad Guys would have Aneesa & Tonya in the final

[QUOTE=kvm1977;332565]Then explain why they picked Aneesa to go into the final Inferno? The truth is ideally they were hoping that the Bad Guys would have Aneesa & Tonya in the final[/QUOTE] No that's not the truth, Tonya performed extremely well that challenge and Cara and Susie both stated she was a great competitor that they didn't want to face in the Inferno. They wanted Aneesa in the final but they chose her for the last inferno because they didn't want to go against the other 3 girls. Tonya outperformed Evelyn in that challenge. I know people think that season sucked but y'all might want to go rewatch because Susie was a strategical mastermind and Tonya was a physical powerhouse that season.

[QUOTE=kvm1977;332548]I can't even discuss this because people refuse to put their bias aside. So, keep hating--you can't provide a single stat to back up your argument. I'll deal with facts--you create reasons that have no validity to discredit them[/QUOTE] So do you think Susie is top five or top 10? If so, name them. I'll easily name 10 girls who are better than her, in "every aspect, with provided stats".

I find it funny that someone's pretty much defending Susie to the death right now and is talking about other people being biased. I have no bias against Susie, I just think she's not as good as some think. Not bad, but not amazing.

[QUOTE=Nightwolf;332589]I find it funny that someone's pretty much defending Susie to the death right now and is talking about other people being biased. I have no bias against Susie, I just think she's not as good as some think. Not bad, but not amazing.[/QUOTE] I have nothing against her either. I think she's entertaining, but it's ludicrous to say she's top 10.

I'd say Susie is top ten. Here's my top 10 list of girls to ever do the challenge. 1) Rachel R. 2) Ev. 3) Laurel 4) Holly S. 5) Jodi 6) Susie 7) Emily S. 8) Veronica 9) Coral 10) Roni My list is up for debate, but I'd say it's pretty accurate.

[QUOTE=VegasAtSea;332593]I'd say Susie is top ten. Here's my top 10 list of girls to ever do the challenge. 1) Rachel R. 2) Ev. 3) Laurel 4) Holly S. 5) Jodi 6) Susie 7) Emily S. 8) Veronica 9) Coral 10) Roni My list is up for debate, but I'd say it's pretty accurate.[/QUOTE] where is Emily from roadrules 2? and the other holly? I would make a few changes but its all right. I also think coral and veronica (in her prime) can beat Susie when it especially comes to politics and social. I think Susie plays a great game, she always get what she wants and you cannot be mad at that. She is sort of like Eli manning, you don't know how she pulls it out but she does.