V1 was close to the case,and he stand by Tonya's side I choose to believe him, he knows more than we do.It's clear that the article was written in order to clean Kenny and Evan's names, they are really concern on cover their *****,this article proves that:
[url=http://www.christinagarner.com/2013/08/24/open-letter-to-kenny-santucci-and-evan-starkman/]Open Letter to Kenny Santucci and Evan Starkman | Christina Garner[/url]
[QUOTE=toenails;409275]2-8% of women would still be several million women. So I would still consider that "many women" since the word "many" refers to a large number, and several million women lying is definitely large.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/frequency-of-sexual-assault]This website[/url] uses data from U.S. Department of Justice to indicate that about 9.7 million Americans have been sexually assaulted in the past 20 years. 8% of that number would be about 776,000. Which, I guess is still a large number. But the bigger problem I see here is that people make a bigger deal about those 776,000 (or fewer), when there's still 8,924,000 that HAVE been legitimately assaulted.
[QUOTE=stuufman;409283]V1 was close to the case,and he stand by Tonya's side I choose to believe him, he knows more than we do.It's clear that the article was written in order to clean Kenny and Evan's names, they are really concern on cover their *****,this article proves that: He knows more than Susie who was actually there
[URL="http://www.christinagarner.com/2013/08/24/open-letter-to-kenny-santucci-and-evan-starkman/"]Open Letter to Kenny Santucci and Evan Starkman | Christina Garner[/URL][/QUOTE]
He knows more than Susie who was actually there. ?
[QUOTE=auldx;409261]"I returned to my life as a doctoral student, and was surprised two years later to see on TMZ that one of the cast members on that show was alleging that a sexual assault occurred on that season, in my bedroom, while I was in it, at the hands of two of my best friends."
Who knew her and Kenny and evan were so close?[/QUOTE]
Apparently the Devil himself. She's blonde but damn she also is drinking the Kool-Aid.
[QUOTE=toenails;409320]I'm pretty sure V1Man was going to support Tonya no matter what. If I recall correctly he [I]hated[/I] Kenny and Evan even before The Ruins.[/QUOTE]
And THAT my friend is where V1 and I agree with each other. And he's not the only one. I think it would've been better had Kenny stayed stupid like when Tina put him in his place on FM reunion back in 06.
[QUOTE=Youssarian;409270][url=http://ndaa.org/pdf/the_voice_vol_3_no_1_2009.pdf[/url]Research shows[/url] that only 2-8% of women lie about sexual assault. Could Tonya be one of them? Perhaps. But the myth that "many women lie about it" is false and perpetuated by underlying misogynistic and patriarchal beliefs in our society (not blaming you - just blaming society as a whole!)[/QUOTE]
what the hell would Tonya have to gain from lying? I see if her name was Lauren. :eyeroll:
[QUOTE=Nostalgic;409418]And THAT my friend is where V1 and I agree with each other. And he's not the only one. I think it would've been better had Kenny stayed stupid like when Tina put him in his place on FM reunion back in 06.[/QUOTE]
It would've been better if Kenny never appeared on this show at all.
Well how did Katelynn know it was KellyAnne's toothbrush? I've never read that tidbit before and I followed all the articles and posts here about it. Sounds like Katelynn had inside info.
[QUOTE=gbp02;409435]Well how did Katelynn know it was KellyAnne's toothbrush? I've never read that tidbit before and I followed all the articles and posts here about it. Sounds like Katelynn had inside info.[/QUOTE]
Maybe [I]Sarah[/I] is the one who told Tonya what happened. Dun dun duuuuuuuuunnnnnnnn plot twist
[QUOTE=toenails;409873]Maybe [I]Sarah[/I] is the one who told Tonya what happened. Dun dun duuuuuuuuunnnnnnnn plot twist[/QUOTE]
Despite Sarah speaking at colleges against sexual assault, I don't think she would have if it was Kenny because she was so in love with him but maybe she did.
[QUOTE=Challenge 17;409886]Despite Sarah speaking at colleges against sexual assault, I don't think she would have if it was Kenny because she was so in love with him but maybe she did.[/QUOTE]
Operative word being "was" and its not a matter of who ******* snitched either. wow guys...
[QUOTE=JL81790;409263]I'll be interested to see the reactions around here if in some time we found out this was fabricated. If you can pull two sentences out of an article that seems to be fairly empowering to women and actually defends Tonya about her overall treatment by production/cast and call her irresponsible for it you're pretty far gone.
According to her she was in the room, with Kenny, Evan, and Tonya at the time and didn't see anything happen. Two people were branded as rapists based on what Tonya said. It would be irresponsible of her to just blindly agree with that assertion, despite what she believes to be the truth, out of some gender solidarity, in the same way that I wouldn't defend their innocence if I knew they were guilty just because we're all guys. Right/wrong are right/wrong regardless of gender.
Again, I find both sides claims to be believable (not BMP/MTV's assertion that "anything that happened to Tonya, she asked for"...that was disgusting). Susie has just as much right to say how she felt about the situation as those that believe Tonya. She shouldn't feel pressured not to because they both have ******s.[/QUOTE]
I did always find it strange that Sarah( a sexual abuse survivor + advocate), always took Kenny and Evan's side in this when she would likely be privy to information since she was on the ruins, and never left Kenny and Evan's side.
You guys do know that there are a ton of innocent guys in jail just because a girl got drunk, had sex with him, regretted it the next morning and then claimed rape right? In some court cases the judge doesn't even need evidence to a rape case and will put the male in custody until they get evidence to prove he's not guilty and even then they take a while to process it.
More and more women lie about being "raped" and I believe someone as unstable and crazy like Tonya is lying. You think production would have let Kenny and Evan ram a toothbrush in her privates and NOT do anything about it? Come on now if it was real rape then Kenny and Evan would have not even been on Rivals 1 because production would have reported it either on the spot or after the Ruins ended. I firmly believe Tonya is a liar but unfortunately this case will never be disclosed to the public. It's just so stupid and unfortunate how the words "rape" and "sexual assault" have a less significant meaning in today's society because women throw it around for even accidentally bumping into them like that women who tried to press charges on Dustin Zito but security footage proved something else. This type of stuff is eventually not going to get taken that serious and real rape victims will suffer because of it.
Honestly, I really don't know what to believe but I hope for everyone's sake that she's telling the truth or else she made an *** out of everyone by lying about it
[QUOTE=JayTee;409933]You guys do know that there are a ton of innocent guys in jail just because a girl got drunk, had sex with him, regretted it the next morning and then claimed rape right? In some court cases the judge doesn't even need evidence to a rape case and will put the male in custody until they get evidence to prove he's not guilty and even then they take a while to process it.
More and more women lie about being "raped" and I believe someone as unstable and crazy like Tonya is lying. You think production would have let Kenny and Evan ram a toothbrush in her privates and NOT do anything about it? Come on now if it was real rape then Kenny and Evan would have not even been on Rivals 1 because production would have reported it either on the spot or after the Ruins ended. I firmly believe Tonya is a liar but unfortunately this case will never be disclosed to the public. It's just so stupid and unfortunate how the words "rape" and "sexual assault" have a less significant meaning in today's society because women throw it around for even accidentally bumping into them like that women who tried to press charges on Dustin Zito but security footage proved something else. This type of stuff is eventually not going to get taken that serious and real rape victims will suffer because of it.[/QUOTE]
Yup. This is absolutely true. Someone mentioned earlier that the court system does not support women, but that is a complete myth. The US justice system is [I]EXTREMELY[/I] biased against men. Conduct some research and you'll learn of countless cases where men literally get arrested from their homes because some drunk girl ACCUSED them of rape with zero evidence. If you claim that something happened, PROVE IT. If you can't, you're lying. It's as simple as that.
[QUOTE=Youssarian;409270][url=http://ndaa.org/pdf/the_voice_vol_3_no_1_2009.pdf[/url]Research shows[/url] that only 2-8% of women lie about sexual assault. Could Tonya be one of them? Perhaps. But the myth that "many women lie about it" is false and perpetuated by underlying misogynistic and patriarchal beliefs in our society (not blaming you - just blaming society as a whole!)[/QUOTE]
I'm just going to re-quote my post that has methodological data proving that only 2-8% of women lie about sexual assault.
Using data from the FBI and Department of Justice, [url=http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates]this website[/url] shows that only 3% of legitimate rapists will ever go to jail.
Just reporting the facts, instead of the myths perpetuated by society.
[QUOTE=Youssarian;409953]I'm just going to re-quote my post that has methodological data proving that only 2-8% of women lie about sexual assault.
Using data from the FBI and Department of Justice, [url=http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates]this website[/url] shows that [B]only 3% of legitimate rapists will ever go to jail.[/B]
Just reporting the facts, instead of the myths perpetuated by society.[/QUOTE]
Thank you.
It's a very sticky situation. I don't think you can argue with the statistics but it's, obviously, a very tough situation to deal with either way. You don't want to tell a traumatized woman that she hasn't been, or hasn't proved that she's been, sufficiently violated to warrant protection, but at the same time you also don't want to blindly believe someone's word because then you ruin someone else's life.
I have friends who have been on both sides. When it happens to a female friend there's really nothing more that you want to do than go kick someone's teeth in...but I also had a roommate in college who had (drunk) consensual sex with a girl who turned it into sexual assault. Nothing major happened to him and he was basically given a college restraining order to stay away from the girl but we found out years later that the girl had a boyfriend at the time and was trying to cover up her cheating.
I don't think anyone but the people in the room know for 100% fact what happened, which is why I withhold judgment either way.
[QUOTE=JL81790;410019]it happens to a female friend there's really nothing more that you want to do than go kick someone's teeth in...but I also had a roommate in college who had (drunk) consensual sex with a girl who turned it into sexual assault. Nothing major happened to him and he was basically given a college restraining order to stay away from the girl but we found out years later that the girl had a boyfriend at the time and was trying to cover up her cheating.
I don't think anyone but the people in the room know for 100% fact what happened, which is why I withhold judgment either way.[/QUOTE]
That sounds like Higher Learning/Cry Wolf. lmao. Either way you're right. But why did I think of Ex-Plosion's Lauren?
[QUOTE=JL81790;409263]I'll be interested to see the reactions around here if in some time we found out this was fabricated. If you can pull two sentences out of an article that seems to be fairly empowering to women and actually defends Tonya about her overall treatment by production/cast and call her irresponsible for it you're pretty far gone.
According to her she was in the room, with Kenny, Evan, and Tonya at the time and didn't see anything happen. Two people were branded as rapists based on what Tonya said. It would be irresponsible of her to just blindly agree with that assertion, despite what she believes to be the truth, out of some gender solidarity, in the same way that I wouldn't defend their innocence if I knew they were guilty just because we're all guys. Right/wrong are right/wrong regardless of gender.
Again, I find both sides claims to be believable (not BMP/MTV's assertion that "anything that happened to Tonya, she asked for"...that was disgusting). Susie has just as much right to say how she felt about the situation as those that believe Tonya. She shouldn't feel pressured not to because they both have ******s.[/QUOTE]
If Tonya had no merit in her case, I doubt anyone would bother giving her the time of day, much less agree to pay her a large sum of money to drop the whole thing. I'm not here to say her side is 100% right. I said I preferred Susie to leave it out of her article instead of [I]implying[/I] something didn't happen for sure, which she obviously lacked the conviction to confirm (just going by her choice of words).
I just think that most people not directly involved should really think twice and choose their words carefully before giving their two cents. It's not very empowering for women to publicly support someone who berates women on TV, jokingly or not. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see she and Tonya weren't the greatest of friends. I Hate Tonya Game, anyone? I hate to cry bias, but Susie's opinion is the last I'd rely on regarding this Tonya business. Sure, it's not fair to Susie to discredit her testimony but it's also not fair to discredit Tonya just for a lack of evidence. It's a two way street. We can sit here and discuss statistics about how many women lie about this situation, but it doesn't bring us any closer to figuring out what happened in that room between those three people. It's all pointless speculation between all of us here.
[QUOTE=Lotus;410181]If Tonya had no merit in her case, I doubt anyone would bother giving her the time of day, much less agree to pay her a large sum of money to drop the whole thing. I'm not here to say her side is 100% right. I said I preferred Susie to leave it out of her article instead of [I]implying[/I] something didn't happen for sure, which she obviously lacked the conviction to confirm (just going by her choice of words).
I just think that most people not directly involved should really think twice and choose their words carefully before giving their two cents. It's not very empowering for women to publicly support someone who berates women on TV, jokingly or not. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see she and Tonya weren't the greatest of friends. I Hate Tonya Game, anyone? I hate to cry bias, but Susie's opinion is the last I'd rely on regarding this Tonya business. Sure, it's not fair to Susie to discredit her testimony but it's also not fair to discredit Tonya just for a lack of evidence. It's a two way street. We can sit here and discuss statistics about how many women lie about this situation, but it doesn't bring us any closer to figuring out what happened in that room between those three people. It's all pointless speculation between all of us here.[/QUOTE]
And to be honest I don't really disagree with a lot of what you said. I said on another thread that I withhold any judgement because a) I don't know what happened in that room and b) I wouldn't be shocked either way if it did happen or it didn't.
What concerns me is that I just don't get the whole thing about women HAVING to empower other women. On some level I'd admit that perhaps I don't have that kind of perspective...I'm a straight white male...I've never really felt the need to stand up for someone of similar gender/race/sexuality just because we have a similar gender/race/sexuality. If Susie believes something to be the truth, regardless of the fact that it's contrary to the best interests of another woman, I don't feel like she should feel pressured to keep silent about it out of some kinship with someone based solely on the fact that they both have the same second chromosome. If I felt another guy had done something wrong to a woman, or if a white guy did something wrong to a non-white guy, I wouldn't feel obligated, nor would I ever, defend them just because we're both guys, or we're both white. I understand it's a different thing, but it just makes me uncomfortable that someone would be critiqued for speaking what they believe to be the truth based on that "we have to stand together" reasoning.
Tonya has always been a lying *****, supposedly her personal life was in shambles back then and she was dirt poor...what an excellent "get rich" scheme. To me she will always be the ***** That Cried Wolf and I am glad she will never be on another Challenge...sucks that Kenny and Evan will never be back and were never given the chance to clear their name.
I don't know what to believe at this point. We will never know but if it didn't happen I feel bad for Kenny and Evan. They got a tremendous about of **** for this and never will get a chance to clear there name if Susie is telling the truth.
[QUOTE=JEKFAN;410191]I don't know what to believe at this point. We will never know but if it didn't happen I feel bad for Kenny and Evan. They got a tremendous about of **** for this and never will get a chance to clear there name if Susie is telling the truth.[/QUOTE]
And if it did happen you would feel...
[QUOTE=TheCloser;410197]And if it did happen you would feel...[/QUOTE]
Haha I would feel how I've felt about it since I heard it happen that they shouldn't be allowed back. This whole time we only heard it did happen and were just now hearing another side.
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