The Challenge Series: RW/RR (Generic Thread)

Definitely Abram over Wes.

[QUOTE=Superboy;195375]I give Abram the slight edge aswell. Derrick is a great competitor, but is one of the weakest(Brad also) of the top competitors all time. I always wanted to see those two go at it, and the face off on the Island was that opportunity but Derrick chickened out and opted to team up with Johnny to take out Abram. How about Abram vs Wes? Abram beat Brad and Wes beat Derrick, so those two are neck and neck when it comes to an elimination round, but as an all around competitor, Abram is better.[/QUOTE] I think "chickening out" and "smart strategizing" are two completely different things, but that's just me. If I was in Derrick's position I would've done the same thing, why work against two people when you only need to work against one while eliminating the stronger of the two you're going against? I also don't think Derrick's one of the weakest of the top males. I wouldn't rank him the overall top competitor, but top 5 for sure, but like before, that's just my opinion. I would like to see Abe vs. Derrick head to head. But there's games where I just couldn't see Derrick losing, mainly anything that involves hustle over pure strength and size.

Abram over Derrick. Abram is a lot smarter. Abram seems to just be good at everything. I do think they both are top 10. Since Wes was brought up in comparison to Abram, I will say Abram is better. This is my opinion.

In your [B]OWN[/B] Opinion can you please make a Top 10 Lists for each of ; [COLOR="Navy"]Best challenger male[/COLOR] and[COLOR="red"]Best challenger female[/COLOR] Make seperate lists (;

[QUOTE=Superboy;195375]I give Abram the slight edge aswell. Derrick is a great competitor, but is one of the weakest(Brad also) of the top competitors all time. I always wanted to see those two go at it, and the face off on the Island was that opportunity but Derrick chickened out and opted to team up with Johnny to take out Abram. How about Abram vs Wes? Abram beat Brad and Wes beat Derrick, so those two are neck and neck when it comes to an elimination round, but as an all around competitor, Abram is better.[/QUOTE] I would take Wes over Abram in an elimination round, and Abram over Wes in a challenge. Wes is an elimination round specialist (even placing his Fresh Meat exiles aside) but I've seen him quit too many times when he knows he's not winning (Fresh Meat sled challenge, Duel pole dance challenge, Fresh Meat 2 exile). Abram has tenacity in spades, and may be the most fearless cast member ever on these shows, but I don't think he matches up to Wes upper body strength or athleticism. Wes has been getting a bad rep ever since the Ruins for his two unceremonious exits, but putting his bravado and ego aside he's pretty up there.

[QUOTE=ClubSandwich;195476]I would take Wes over Abram in an elimination round, and Abram over Wes in a challenge. [B]Wes is an elimination round specialist (even placing his Fresh Meat exiles aside)[/B] but I've seen him quit too many times when he knows he's not winning (Fresh Meat sled challenge, Duel pole dance challenge, Fresh Meat 2 exile). Abram has tenacity in spades, and may be the most fearless cast member ever on these shows, but I don't think he matches up to Wes upper body strength or athleticism. Wes has been getting a bad rep ever since the Ruins for his two unceremonious exits, but putting his bravado and ego aside he's pretty up there.[/QUOTE] Specialist? His only quality win was over Derrick. He beat Chet and Nick...wow.

[QUOTE=challenger;195474]In your [B]OWN[/B] Opinion can you please make a Top 10 Lists for each of ; [COLOR="Navy"]Best challenger male[/COLOR] and[COLOR="red"]Best challenger female[/COLOR] Make seperate lists (;[/QUOTE] In order, in my opinion. [COLOR="Navy"] 1. Landon 2. CT 3. Evan 4. Mark 5. Theo V 6. Timmy 7. Wes 8. Abram 9. Derrick 10. Darrell[/COLOR] Going to try to keep some of the earlier cast mates off this list. It's almost impossible to compare some of these people. Honestly it would have been nice to see more of Nathan (Seattle) Dan (Northern Trail) James (Maximum Velocity) Chadwick (Down Under) Yes (Semester at Sea) Jamie (New Orleans) Chris and Dave (South Pacific) and Steven (Las Vegas) because I feel as though some of them had they participated in a more recent seasons may have been able to match up or exceed my current some of the people in my top ten, but they're just too unproven to make arguments for. Even Adam (The Quest) who's reputation seems to have been cemented by losing Name that Coconut to Derrick was probably way better athletically than he ever displayed on these challenges. And no I didn't forget about Alton, he's a good competitor, but he's not in my top ten, I've seen him screw up on way too many challenges to place him up there. [COLOR="Red"] 1. Ev 2. Rachel 3. Ellen 4. Emily 5. Jodi 6. Holly (Latin America) 7. Tina 8. Susie 9. Coral 10. Julie[/COLOR] I'm less confident about this list. I know Laurel belongs on it somewhere already, maybe even Tori, but I'm not sure who to bump off. People may have issues with me placing Tina, Susie, or Coral on it, but I feel despite not looking as athletic as Jodi or Rachel, all three are very clutch which is sometimes even more important. I honestly wish I could bump people like Ellen, Emily, or Holly off these lists because I hated their personalities, but even in their limited showings, they were really athletic, and clearly some of the top competitors ever. Ev's a beast, she'll win the Duel 3 if there ever is one and if she's asked to participate in it.

[QUOTE=molds13;195493]Specialist? His only quality win was over Derrick. He beat Chet and Nick...wow.[/QUOTE] It's also the manner in which he beat them, but yeah maybe specialist is an overstatement.

[QUOTE]I think "chickening out" and "smart strategizing" are two completely different things, but that's just me. If I was in Derrick's position I would've done the same thing, why work against two people when you only need to work against one while eliminating the stronger of the two you're going against?[/QUOTE] It was a smart move, but I couldn't see Abram, Miz, or Brad doing something like that because they have a lot of heart and integrity...... derrick really soften up after the Gauntlet 2. [QUOTE]Abram has tenacity in spades, and may be the most fearless cast member ever on these shows, [B]but I don't think he matches up to Wes upper body strength or athleticism[/B].[/QUOTE] Abram repeatedly owned the Miz in wrestling matches, and he is definately more athletic than Wes, he's more agile. [QUOTE] Going to try to keep some of the earlier cast mates off this list. It's almost impossible to compare some of these people. Honestly it would have been nice to see more of [B]Nathan (Seattle)[/B] Dan (Northern Trail)[B] James (Maximum Velocity) Chadwick (Down Under) Yes (Semester at Sea)[/B] Jamie (New Orleans)[B] Chris and Dave (South Pacific) and Steven (Las Vegas)[/B] because I feel as though some of them had they participated in a more recent seasons may have been able to match up or exceed my current some of the people in my top ten, but they're just too unproven to make arguments for. [/QUOTE] Out of those you mentioned, Chadwick is the only one who would make top ten if he had completed on more than one challenge. Also, Dan(RR5) was on par with Theo V as a competitor, so if you have Theo V on the top ten list, then you must also have Dan. My top ten males: 1)Mark 2)CT 3)Timmy 4)Alton in no order Dan(RR5) Theo V Miz Landon 9)Darrell 10)Abram My top ten females: Holly(RR9) Ev Emily Holly(RR7) Rachel Susie Veronica Christina(RR12) Ellen Jodi

People underestimate Shane so bad..probably because he's gay. On Fresh Meat, he was seen as the "weakest" alumni which is total BULL. On the Inferno 1, if you pay attention to the times and scores, Shane was the best male on the Road Rules team. But it's so overlooked =T Shane made it very far on BOTS1 where there was a point system, and he made it pretty far in BOTS2. And when Abram beat Miz in a wrestling match ONCE. It was when they were drunk, just to let you know.

[QUOTE]People underestimate Shane so bad..probably because he's gay. On Fresh Meat, he was seen as the "weakest" alumni which is total BULL. On the Inferno 1, if you pay attention to the times and scores, Shane was the best male on the Road Rules team. But it's so overlooked =T Shane made it very far on BOTS1 where there was a point system, and he made it pretty far in BOTS2.[/QUOTE] Shane had potential to be a top competitor, but he was a middle player. He made it far on both BOTS, but he didn't make it to the final three. And he was the 3rd best competitor on the Road Rules team on the Inferno 1, not the best. He outperformed Abram but not Darrell or Timmy. [QUOTE] And when Abram beat Miz in a wrestling match ONCE. It was when they were drunk, just to let you know.[/QUOTE] No, Abram also beat a far bigger and stronger Miz on the Inferno 1 if you saw the preview special and the extra footage on the Reunion Special.

How about Nathan or Norman? You guys are leaving them off your lists but they consistently outperformed everybody. Or how about Jamie (RW New Orleans) Colin was a good competitor in his one challenge. There are a couple dark horses if you ask who the strongest is.

Thoughts on this last wave of posts. Abram > Derrick AND Wes. Abram is not on the level of CT/Landon, but he's up there. Plus he's absolutely out of his mind which helps him as a competitor. I remember David on the Inferno not wanting to risk going against Abram because he thought Abram was a psycho. I'm done putting up lists of the best competitors. I did one about a month or two ago...it goes a little something like this. CT and Landon at the top, then everyone else. Tina on the top 10 female competitors? BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! The only top 10 list of mine that Tina would make is "Most Annoying Castmembers".

[QUOTE=andrewsz1991;195592]How about Nathan or Norman? You guys are leaving them off your lists but they consistently outperformed everybody. Or how about Jamie (RW New Orleans) Colin was a good competitor in his one challenge. There are a couple dark horses if you ask who the strongest is.[/QUOTE] Nathan and Norman were in the middle of the pack, not at the top. Colin was great, but that was only one challenge. The same with Christian(RR2) who outperformed Jamie(RW New Orleans) in pretty much every mission on the Xtreme Challenge and was the top competitor. Christian, Colin, and Chadwick were elite competitors, but didn't compete on enough challenges. Those three are the only dark horses.

[COLOR=blue][B]1. CT[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][B]2. Landon[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][B]4. Mike The Miz[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][B]4. Evan[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][B]5. Mark [/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][B]6. Alton[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][B]7. Darell[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][B]8. Abram[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][B]9. Kenny[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][B]10. Wes[/B][/COLOR] People will probably be surprised where I placed Darell, however just because he isn't "psycho" doesn't mean he isn't a good competitor. He keeps a level head, always does well in challenges & is just a kick *** player. [COLOR=red] [/COLOR] [B][COLOR=red]1. Evelyn[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=red]2. Rachel[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=red]3. Ellen[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=red]4. Emily[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=red]5. Roni[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=red]6. Christena[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=red]7. Holly[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=red]8. Jodi[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=red]9. Veronica[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=red]10. KellyAnne[/COLOR][/B]

[QUOTE] 1. CT [COLOR=black]2. Landon[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]4. Mike The Miz[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]4. Evan[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]5. Mark [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]6. Alton[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]7. Darell[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]8. Abram[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]9. [B]Kenny[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]10. Wes [/COLOR] [/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but that's just wrong.

[QUOTE=Superboy;195672]I'm sorry, but that's just wrong.[/QUOTE] Oh great another Wes and Kenny debate in this thread.

[QUOTE=RMD1;195674]Oh great another Wes and Kenny debate in this thread.[/QUOTE] There is no debate that Kenny is not top ten all time.

[QUOTE=Superboy;195577]Shane had potential to be a top competitor, but he was a middle player. He made it far on both BOTS, but he didn't make it to the final three. And he was the 3rd best competitor on the Road Rules team on the Inferno 1, not the best. He outperformed Abram but not Darrell or Timmy. Darrell and Timmy didn't do THAT well on the missions in the Inferno 1. I have the whole season on my laptop and Shane outperformed them in almost every mission. Because Timmy was from RR:2, he was seen as an old veteran. Darrell had a great alliance which prevented him from ever going into the Inferno. No, Abram also beat a far bigger and stronger Miz on the Inferno 1 if you saw the preview special and the extra footage on the Reunion Special.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Superboy;195577]Shane had potential to be a top competitor, but he was a middle player. He made it far on both BOTS, but he didn't make it to the final three. And he was the 3rd best competitor on the Road Rules team on the Inferno 1, not the best. He outperformed Abram but not Darrell or Timmy. No, Abram also beat a far bigger and stronger Miz on the Inferno 1 if you saw the preview special and the extra footage on the Reunion Special.[/QUOTE] Darrell and Timmy didn't do THAT well on the missions in the Inferno 1. I have the whole season on my laptop and Shane outperformed them in almost every mission. Because Timmy was from RR:2, he was seen as an old veteran. Darrell had a great alliance which prevented him from ever going into the Inferno.

[QUOTE=Superboy;195676]There is no debate that Kenny is not top ten all time.[/QUOTE] His track record and many people on this site will disagree with you, but thats all I will say on this topic.

[QUOTE=jhl182;195680]Darrell and Timmy didn't do THAT well on the missions in the Inferno 1. I have the whole season on my laptop and Shane outperformed them in almost every mission. Because Timmy was from RR:2, he was seen as an old veteran. Darrell had a great alliance which prevented him from ever going into the Inferno.[/QUOTE] I have the season too, and again, Shane was 3rd. And Timmy performances on his later challenges proves that he really was the best player on Road Rules on the Inferno 1. [QUOTE] His track record and many people on this site will disagree with you, but thats all I will say on this topic. [/QUOTE] What has he ever done? He never won an individual elimination round, in fact he lost to Nehemiah on the Duel 1. Plus he never consistantly stood out as a top performer in missions. To put him over competitors like Dan(RR5), Theo V, and even Wes, Derrick, Brad, and Jamie is ridiculous. Frank has done more than Kenny has on the two challenges he was on.

I wouldn't say that Kenny isn't one of my top ten, but he's up there, but this is just my opinion. I would put him in the top ten based on strategy and politics. An overall competitor shouldn't just be based on strength.

[QUOTE=fabulous788;195684]I wouldn't say that Kenny isn't one of my top ten, but he's up there, but this is just my opinion. I would put him in the top ten based on strategy and politics. An overall competitor shouldn't just be based on strength.[/QUOTE] An overall competitor is based on physical prowess, mental strength, and smarts. Kenny has shown to have [B]none[/B](expect for maybe physical prowess, but he isn't impressive), his only strength is alliances.

[QUOTE=Superboy;195688]An overall competitor is based on physical prowess, mental strength, and smarts. Kenny has shown to have none, his only strength is [B]alliances[/B].[/QUOTE] Is that not part of the game though?? He was obviously smart enough to allign himself with smart people and that's gotten him far many times.

[QUOTE=fabulous788;195689]Is that not part of the game though?? He was obviously smart enough to allign himself with smart people and that's gotten him far many times.[/QUOTE] It's easy to align yourself with people if they're your friends, in fact, creating or join alliances to win the game is quite easy in general. It doesn't say much about him as a competitor if he has to make alliances in order to win the game everytime.

But still, if that takes you to the end of the game, then more power to you.

I really don't understand how every vevmo user said Abram is better than Derrick. I think it is really close, and statiscally Derrick does better by the numbers. I DID A COMPARISON: Comparison: [B]Abram[/B] (RR: South Pacific) vs. [B]Derrick[/B] (RR: X-Treme) [B]Category 1: [/B]What is their winning challenge percentage? Abram - 2/6 challenges won (perc. 333) Derrick - 3/8 challenges won (perc. 375) [I] [B]Derrick[/B] wins category 1.[/I] [B]Category 2:[/B] How many times did the competitor make it to the finals? (perc.) Abram - 3/6 times made it to the finals (perc. 500) Derrick - 4/8 times made it to the finals (perc. 500) [I]There was a tie for category 2.[/I] [B]Category 3:[/B] Who has a better elimination round record; percentage? Abram - 2 Wins 1 Losses (perc. 666) Derrick - 6 wins 3 Losses (perc. 666) [I]There was a tie for category 3.[/I] [B]Category 4:[/B] Game Summary; how long do they last, who lasts longer? Abram - The Gauntlet - Eliminated 12th The Inferno - Won final challenge Battle of The Sexes 2 - Voted off 4th The Inferno 2 - Lossed in final challenge The Inferno 3 - Won final challenge The Island - Voted off 2nd/3rd Derrick - Battle of The Sexes 2 - Voted off 5th The Inferno 2 - Lossed in final challenge The Gauntlet 2 - Eliminated 15th Fresh Meat - Eliminated 8th/9th The Duel - Eliminated 9th The Inferno 3 - Won final challenge The Island - Won final challenge The Ruins - Won final challenge [I][B]Derrick [/B]wins category 4.[/I] [B]RESULTED WINNER[/B]: Derrick (RR: X-Treme) [B]Why?:[/B] In the elimination round category, Derrick was 6 and 3 , while Abram is 2 and 1. 6 and 3 is way more powerful than Abram's record. Due to percentage it is a tie. If it was unanimous decision, that category would of gone to Derrick.Derrick lasted longer than Abram in The Island and Battle of The Sexes 2 giving Derrick the win. Abram and Derrick both made it to the final challenge in the Inferno 2 and Inferno 3, meaning Abram never lasted more than Derrick in one challenge, Derrick either lasted longer or they both made it to the finals. [B]Derrick [/B]60 % [B]Abram[/B] 40 %

[QUOTE=fabulous788;195693]But still, if that takes you to the end of the game, then more power to you.[/QUOTE] But he is still(based on his performaces as a individual competitor), not top ten all time, heck he's not even top fifteen. Kenny like Coral and Johnny, is just a political player. [B]Challenger[/B], making it to the final mission and winning doesn't say to much about a competitor(unless they performed well and won an elimination round) because luck is involved most of the time(ask Darrell). And, as of lately, Derrick alliances with Johnny and Kenny have pretty much been the reason he won his last two challenges. Also the best competitor that Derrick beat was Syrus, who was average at best, his victories against Adam L and Brad on the Gauntlet 2 doesn't mean anything because it was trivia, not something like a puzzle. Abram beating Brad in a [B]pure[/B] physical event is more impressive than any elimination round derrick has won.