The Challenge: Battle of the Exes - Love and Marriage

[QUOTE=Skyline_;299337]Not necessarily its a case by case thing, but like you said one has a deep history. And that history is when used it usually includes mocking something that is persevered negative about that race. And Emily unknowingly or not did exactly that, when she also used "ghetto" slang trying to imitate Ty, when Ty does not even talk like that. Camilla wasnt mocking anything persevered negative about being white.[/QUOTE] Really? So, making herself incredibly pale has nothing to do with pretending to be a white person? People have gotten so much criticism for being pale that it resulted in a part of the society thinking it's better to look like burnt oompa loompas. I am not saying that mocking a black person for being black (which Emily WASN'T doing) is okay but the people saying it was wrong of Emily are saying it was okay of Camilla are wrong. Racism is racism. If Emily had hurtful/hateful intentions then I'd say that what she did was wrong but she didn't mean it that way. Also, I am not saying that what Camilla did was wrong but if someone was to consider what Emily did then they have to see that Camilla did the same thing.

[QUOTE=faceless;299338]Really? So, making herself incredibly pale has nothing to do with pretending to be a white person? People have gotten so much criticism for being pale that it resulted in a part of the society thinking it's better to look like burnt oompa loompas. I am not saying that mocking a black person for being black (which Emily WASN'T doing) is okay but the people saying it was wrong of Emily are saying it was okay of Camilla are wrong. Racism is racism. If Emily had hurtful/hateful intentions then I'd say that what she did was wrong but she didn't mean it that way. Also, I am not saying that what Camilla did was wrong but if someone was to consider what Emily did then they have to see that Camilla did the same thing.[/QUOTE] Yes really, and trying to turn being pale/white into some racial aspect whites have to go through to fit what you are saying is laughable, and not only that the criticism of being to pale or to tan usually comes from within their own community. But once again its all a case by case thing, and Camilla wasnt mocking anything that is widely perceived as a negative racial aspect or stereotype about being white (Which she is her self). Answer one thing you say Emily wasnt mocking, so when Emily went "ghetto" in her attempt to imitate someone that we have not seen talk that way what was she imitating then? It wasnt Ty cause thats not him, but it is a perceived negative stereotype of his skin color. Again dont think she is racist at all, but this was sketchy. You can try your hardest to make these two cases seem the same, but they are not.

[QUOTE=Skyline_;299339]Yes really, and trying to turn being pale/white into some racial aspect whites have to go through to fit what you are saying is laughable, and not only that the criticism of being to pale or to tan usually comes from within their own community. But once again its all a case by case thing, and Camilla wasnt mocking anything that is widely perceived as a negative racial aspect or stereotype about being white (Which she is her self). Answer one thing you say Emily wasnt mocking, so when Emily went "ghetto" in her attempt to imitate someone that we have not [B]SEEN[/B] talk that way what was she imitating then? It wasnt Ty cause thats not him, but it is a perceived negative stereotype of his skin color. Again dont think she is racist at all, but this was sketchy. You can try your hardest to make these two cases seem the same, but they are not.[/QUOTE] The bolded part is bolded because it's a keyword. Maybe Ty is exactly like what we see but Emily does know him a lot better, on a personal level, and maybe he has used slang to or around her and she was exaggerating it (like what charicature artists do). Let me understand what you're saying better. It is okay to paint yourself white, resembling even a ghost, to look like a white person but it isn't okay to paint yourself black (in this case, with nutella) to look black? You keep saying it's a case by case thing and I agree. In this case, there was no hate intended. I know to Ty, this had nothing to do with racism but if it was, he could tell her he didn't like it and she would say she didn't mean it that way and they would have moved on. Can't you? And also, racism has no exceptions. All races can receive hate.

I didn't see the episode. Just saw the ex-ual tension thing. I think I agree with CT and Johnny. She's like some kind of amish person and I don't think she meant is racist, more as a joke about Paula and Ty together but then again, I never knew what a blackface was. I live in Europe. Black/White racism is not as inherent over here.

Didn't see the epsiode and don't really care about whole Emily/TY situation I'm just happy to hear that CT and Diem finally WON! Might be because there where I live isn't no black/white problem but I don't really see why everyone's so interested in this topic.

[QUOTE=mizwood;299342]Didn't see the epsiode and don't really care about whole Emily/TY situation I'm just happy to hear that CT and Diem finally WON! Might be because there where I live isn't no black/white problem but I don't really see why everyone's so interested in this topic.[/QUOTE] First, welcome to vevmo (I know it's been a week already). Now that the welcome is out of the way... Sadly, I think it's the nature of the Internet. Some people just like to take a side and grind a subject way past its general level of interest. MTV's blatant promotion of the subject didn't really help, and given the usual several hundred thousand drop in viewers between the "Love and Marriage" episode and the "Aftershow" or the cast commentary video on line at MTV.com, there are many who never saw the matter come full circle.

I think CT and Diem are in a better position if they chose Mark and Robin. I think Ty and Emily have a better chance at beating them (over Johnny and Camilla). If they go into the next challenge with Johnny and Mark still in the game, they would need to win to avoid the dome.

[QUOTE=Camille;299248]I wouldn't call her a racist. I would call her action a racist action however. Whether it was intentional or not, that was the outcome.[/QUOTE] I think this is a fair assessment! [QUOTE=Gdsimmons;299282]Emily is CLEARLY not a racist. And she obviously was not making fun of Ty being black. And she is obviously apologetic. I dont think it was THAT bad. It was slightly offensive, but as a black person I wasnt offended. I could see why others could be offended but me personally I wasnt offended in the least. It was corny but it was a little funny. And it wasnt even blackface its freaking chocolate. I didnt feel its some big issue. Emily is A Ok with me[/QUOTE] Thumbs up. [QUOTE=JL81790;299308]If you're avoiding spoilers do NOT watch the preview for next week's episode on mtv.com. It shows who gets eliminated next.[/QUOTE] I watched it, and I'm 1,000% pleased with the outcome! [QUOTE=erodwhtboy;299334]They were all saying how Ty took it way out of proportion, and that Emily is no where near racist since she only dates black guys[/QUOTE] I was going to say - If Emily was indeed racist...she never would've started a relationship with Ty in the first place (in D.C.). It was an unfortunate event, and she learned an invaluable life lesson.

For those saying Ty is being sensitive and overreacting have to realize that this is the same guy who was almost nonchalant when Andrew(RW DC) was saying some racist jokes on his season. It was actually the other roommate that had to defend Ty. So if anything, I'm quite surprised that HE took offense to this. But I think it's the fact that it was Emily of all people.

So anybody else enjoy the challenge as much as I did? There was running, some terrible eating portion, wall climb, no water. Thumbs up from me. I don't mind them getting goofy as long as it still is competitve.

[QUOTE=Calinks;299362]So anybody else enjoy the challenge as much as I did? There was running, some terrible eating portion, wall climb, no water. Thumbs up from me. I don't mind them getting goofy as long as it still is competitve.[/QUOTE] Its was fun to watch and see how almost all the girls are ready to get married and the guys kind of freaking out was funny, besides who will say that a cake can beat the great Johnny Bananas? I'm glad that there was no all water involved this time.

If Aneesa and Rachel were still in would Aneesa carry Rachel? I mean who would be the groom?

[QUOTE=LaneV95;299365]If Aneesa and Rachel were still in would Aneesa carry Rachel? I mean who would be the groom?[/QUOTE] I would have liked to see that, I guess [strike]anessa[/strike] Aneesa would carry Rachel.

[QUOTE=LaneV95;299365]If Aneesa and Rachel were still in would Aneesa carry Rachel? I mean who would be the groom?[/QUOTE] My guess would be they wouldn't have made it past the first round, so they probably wouldn't have had to worry about that.

[QUOTE=TheFeedMachi;299256]The past is the past. Something that was offensive in the past shouldn't always be offensive or we can't move forward as a society.[/QUOTE] Blackface is racist and will still be for quite some time, so people need to be aware and just stop doing it. She could've just as well worn Ty's clothes, walked like him, and talked like him WITHOUT putting Nutella on her face. Just like when people dress up as "gangstas" for Halloween, they don't put on a blackface. And if a close friend of mine did it to me, I'd be just as upset as Ty, because I know they know it is a sensitive topic. But anyway, this is a closed case, Emily obviously felt horrible about it, Ty accepted her apology and I guess you can't learn if you don't make mistakes. At least Camila provided comical relief, it was funny how she didn't understand the meaning of blackface (she has a reason though). I find Diem SO obnoxious. And how the **** are Paula and Dunbar their biggest threat? That was an awesome challenge, I'm just annoyed that they pulled the "to be continued" card, and the episode was too focused on Ty and Emily's incident, it felt a lot like a RW episode. I hope the 3 teams in the final are Ty and Em, Johnny and Camila, CT and Diem. [QUOTE=Gdsimmons;299310]Uhm did the preview kinda sorta show who is A)going into the dome with Em and Ty and B)going home? lol.[/QUOTE] It shows which teams are left so you can infer from that who's thrown in the Dome and who stays. [QUOTE=LaneV95;299365]If Aneesa and Rachel were still in would Aneesa carry Rachel? I mean who would be the groom?[/QUOTE] Well... I don't see Rachel carrying Aneesa, lol.

[QUOTE=CherryPie;299370] I find Diem SO obnoxious. [B]And how the **** are Paula and Dunbar their biggest threat? [/B] [/QUOTE] I guess because Paula's good at long distance running, and they're thinking about the final. Though, it's not like Dunbar's much of a threat (Still baffled that he won Cutthroat). But isn't Diem also very good at long distance running? At least that's what a lot of people say. I don't get how Paula and Dunbar would be a threat in the final at all.. I'd be trying to get rid of Johnny and Camilla.

[QUOTE=fabulous788;299239]In my opinion no one can call Emily racist because she didn't mean it with racist intentions. Obviously it's a huge deal to Ty, but Emily didn't know that. She does now and will probably never do it again.[/QUOTE] What she intended is irrelevant, and this isn't a conversation should be about "Is Emily a racist?" because it brings questions about her character and only leaves room for people to derail the conversation (which they have). The conversation should be about "Is blackface racist?" And the answer is a definite "Yes." [QUOTE=Dash_Vegas!;299210]Ty, Emily could have dropped an N Bomb, and I would not just toss a bunch of money out the window... Also, Johnny/Camila want Ty/Emily to stay because they're next up for Dome Couple[/QUOTE] That's great, but you're not Ty. People deal with racism in different ways, and if you're ever in a situation identical to that, you can do just what you suggested. Him responding in the manner that he did isn't him being oversensitive or emotional. It's not your place, or anyone elses, to criticize him for responding how he did because racism is a serious matter and not a joke at all. [QUOTE=SPK713;299245]Really? People get offended over stupid, childish **** like that?[/QUOTE] That's not a constructive comment at all, and is extremely insensitive. Ty has the right to be offended. Blackface was used for years to portray black people as inferior. So yes, people get offended by racist actions and the perpetuation of racist stereotypes. SHOCKER! [QUOTE=SPK713;299270]This is just stupid... they're beating a dead horse that it isn't even as severe as their making it seem. She did a blackface (does that make sense? I've never heard of a blackface), Ty got all offended, she apologized and regrets it... lets move on. A shame that some people are just overly sensitive to dumb stuff like blackface.[/QUOTE] It's not being oversensitive if you have a basic grasp on history. [QUOTE=TheFeedMachi;299207]That is the problem with the world. Something like that shouldn't be racist. It wasn't racist when Camila went whiteface. It is just her trying to look like another person.[/QUOTE] "White face" isn't even a thing. First of all, Camilla is already white and if she wanted to poke fun of her own race that I'm not a part of, it's not my place to dictate what one does within their own race. Second of all, don't be so naive as to suggest that Camilla (a white person) putting white makeup on her face is the same thing as Emily (also a white person) putting chocolate on her face. Blackface has certain historical ramifications and to ignore that is extremely insensitive. You, as an outsider, don't get to tell people who are the subject of something like blackface how they should feel about it when you'll never have to deal with it, just as I'm not going to tell Native Americans/Canadians how they should feel about the cultural appropriation of their culture. Frankly, even other black people shouldn't be saying "Ty shouldn't feel this way! He's just being oversensitive! We're living in a post-racial society!" And it's not just you either. My message applies to a lot of the people here who have no clue about what they're talking about when it comes to blackface, or do have a clue, but are being insensitive jerks anyways.

Why does it matter if Camilla is also white? You can be racist towards your own race.

[QUOTE=McFly High;299355]For those saying Ty is being sensitive and overreacting have to realize that this is the same guy who was almost nonchalant when Andrew(RW DC) was saying some racist jokes on his season. It was actually the other roommate that had to defend Ty. So if anything, I'm quite surprised that HE took offense to this. But I think it's the fact that it was Emily of all people.[/QUOTE] It also was the best camera time Ty could every get.

[QUOTE=spectacular;299376]I guess because Paula's good at long distance running, and they're thinking about the final. Though, it's not like Dunbar's much of a threat (Still baffled that he won Cutthroat). But isn't Diem also very good at long distance running? At least that's what a lot of people say. I don't get how Paula and Dunbar would be a threat in the final at all.. I'd be trying to get rid of Johnny and Camilla.[/QUOTE] Evelyn says Paula is a great distance runner. That all I need to know.

[QUOTE=Xerxes;299382]What she intended is irrelevant, and this isn't a conversation should be about "Is Emily a racist?" because it brings questions about her character and only leaves room for people to derail the conversation (which they have). The conversation should be about "Is blackface racist?" And the answer is a definite "Yes." [/QUOTE] I wasn't the one that turned it into is Emily a racist from what I remember. The entire racist conversation is going in circles and we can obviously see that we aren't all going to agree on the topic at hand.

[QUOTE=faceless;299384]Why does it matter if Camilla is also white? You can be racist towards your own race.[/QUOTE] You can internalize racist stereotypes about your own race (which Camilla wasn't doing because, as I stated, whiteface isn't a "thing" like blackface is), but you can't be racist against your own race. It's just like how women can internalize misogyny by talking about how much they hate women, but they can't be sexist against themselves. Also, reply to my comment about historical context whenever you wish.

Paula's long distance running is one reason why I rated her as I did. I was a believer in Fresh Meat II when I saw her destroy her partner in the exile. That guy, who I believe played some type of college sport, was huffing and puffing up a storm. Paula is no joke when it comes to running. Jenn also seemed very impressive with running in Cutthroat. For a final stamina is the most important factor.

How the **** would Rachel and Aneesa have been able to do this challenge? Just another example of how having only 1 same *** couple in the show was totally unfair!

I haven't seen the episode yet - but I did see part of the aftershow which showed clips of the "racist" event. I'll be honest, I was a little like "that's all it was?" MTV made it sound so much worse than it actually was. I can see both sides, to be honest. While I get that there is a sensitivity with this due to the historical context, it was extremely obvious (to me -- and to the entire cast judging by their tweets and interviews since the show) that Emily had no racist intentions with it at all. I'd also like to add that this isn't the first time we've seen "blackface" on MTV. I know it's been mentioned already, but I'll bring it up again. I'm pretty sure Mike from RWLV2 wore Black Face when he was being Leroy for Halloween. And Isaac wore blackface on The Duel 2. Nobody took offense to that. BUT, since Ty took offense to this, it's seen as this huge racism issue. Editors ate that up big time. I will not criticize Ty for taking offense to it - because I'm not in his shoes. But I will say this, I was expecting more of a "shocking" event. Smart advertising, MTV :)

[QUOTE=salt&vinegar;299399]How the **** would Rachel and Aneesa have been able to do this challenge? Just another example of how having only 1 same *** couple in the show was totally unfair![/QUOTE]At least they waited until they went home before using this challenge.

No one can think that Emily is racist. She dated Ty and other black men from what i understand. She may be ignorant as to what blackface really means. It was certainly in poor taste and I do think Ty overreacted. I think he was hurt by more of who did it, not the blackface. Paula seems to have forgotten her boyfriend. Once could be forgiven as a drunken mistake, but she has went way over the line. Feel sorry for him...screwed over on national tv. Seem to be a general lack of loyalty among the younger generation when in a relationship. Unless this was scripted for drama....any ideas?

[QUOTE=Xerxes;299396]You can internalize racist stereotypes about your own race (which Camilla wasn't doing because, as I stated, whiteface isn't a "thing" like blackface is), but you can't be racist against your own race. It's just like how women can internalize misogyny by talking about how much they hate women, but they can't be sexist against themselves. Also, reply to my comment about historical context whenever you wish.[/QUOTE] I'm only discussing consistency. You can be racist towards your own race. I believe so at least. But like previously stated, it's obvious that not everyone is going to agree on this subject. I don't know what race you are and it doesn't matter with what I'm saying but as a person of color (Asian) I don't find remarks or insults or what other people say offensive. People pretend to imitate me and slant their eyes to tease and I don't care but I guess I'm just different. I'm done with this subject though cause we aren't all going to think the same.

Personally, I think this (race) horse is dead. People should have paid heed to Bacchus a few pages ago.

What is there really to talk about anymore though? Ty was hurt by the fact that Emily was the one to do it, we know he's dramatic regardless but he seemed genuinely hurt IMO. Everything was cleared on the show and the aftershow. He knows Emily's not racist...