[QUOTE=challengeP1;417757]so does Leroy get voted in tonight and Cohutta draws the kill card or does Cohutta get voted in and Leroy finally draws a card.[/QUOTE]
I would think Cohutta gets voted in. The guys seem to like Leroy. But who knows
I'm just trying to figure out how these teams got decided since it seems strange that Laurel, CT, Zach, and Devyn would all end up on the same team considering what the mission actually is
My guess is that Tj picks 3 team captains randomly out of a bag for each ***:
Devyn: picked Laurel
Zack: Picked CT
Nany: Theresa
Cohutta: Bananas
Jessica: Cara
Leroy: Jonny
[QUOTE=LurkerNoMore;417714]No. I'm well aware he's a fan favorite. I'm just not one of those fans.
My point was that if Heelin's statement about CT being in the final benefitting the show was true, then wouldn't that mean him not be in finals would negatively affect the show as well? If CT was the only thing keeping viewers watching, shouldn't ratings have dropped for the final episode?[...][/QUOTE]
You're twisting my words, I never said that CT was the only reason that kept viewers watching. I said his presence in the finals would be probably be preferable to other less popular challenge members. CT being in the finals could represent a boost in viewers - not necessarily a negative one. You can't make the assumption that CT's absence in the final would mean a negative impact on viewers. If you do that, then you're making the assumption that people who are CT fans only watch the Challenge for CT, which isn't logical. Does the NBA Finals, the Superbowl, etc. lose viewers even though the rooting interests of particular fanbases have been eliminated? However, you will find that sports networks, commissioners etc, prefer to have teams with the larger fanbases or the bigger celebrities/names advance. It creates a bigger draw.
I think production's idea of Fresh Meat so many seasons ago was a good idea. I think many of those cast members have been seamlessly incorporated into the Challenge, and I wouldn't mind seeing another Fresh Meat competition. However, I still like seeing old cast members. That's the only reason I watch. If you guys want to do away with CT, then the same can be said for people like Aneesa. Just because she's not always competitive doesn't give her a free pass either.
[QUOTE=Heelin';417773]You're twisting my words, I never said that CT was the only reason that kept viewers watching. I said his presence in the finals would be probably be preferable to other less popular challenge members. CT being in the finals could represent a boost in viewers - not necessarily a negative one. You can't make the assumption that CT's absence in the final would mean a negative impact on viewers. If you do that, [B]then you're making the assumption that people who are CT fans only watch the Challenge for CT, which isn't logical[/B]. Does the NBA Finals, the Superbowl, etc. lose viewers even though the rooting interests of particular fanbases have been eliminated? However, you will find that sports networks, commissioners etc, prefer to have teams with the larger fanbases or the bigger celebrities/names advance. It creates a bigger draw.
I think production's idea of Fresh Meat so many seasons ago was a good idea. I think many of those cast members have been seamlessly incorporated into the Challenge, and I wouldn't mind seeing another Fresh Meat competition. However, I still like seeing old cast members. That's the only reason I watch. If you guys want to do away with CT, then the same can be said for people like Aneesa. Just because she's not always competitive doesn't give her a free pass either.[/QUOTE]
Um...Some People actually do watch The challenges just because of CT.
And Fresh Meat? A good Idea? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Casting those Rejects has done nothing but Ruin these shows. How in the **** is it a good idea?
[QUOTE=Debut Album;417738]So what are we supposed to just sit here and watch tired as vets make it to the end every time then? **** that. CT and Backpack need to go. Period.[/QUOTE]
How about someone come along that can actually BEAT them? Let cory from real world explosion come on and get trampled by CT. You gotta take the big dogs out, not ask them to stop coming just for new kids to win. ****** that, let someone come on and take out CT, take out bananas, take out zach, take out frank(whose proved to be aBEAST).
[QUOTE=Viegasjuice;417790]How about someone come along that can actually BEAT them? Let cory from real world explosion come on and get trampled by CT. You gotta take the big dogs out, not ask them to stop coming just for new kids to win. ****** that, let someone come on and take out CT, take out bananas, take out zach, take out frank(whose proved to be aBEAST).[/QUOTE]
And what's gonna happen if they do? we're still going to have to put up with their ***** every season. and LOL @ think they have to take the "Big dogs' out The generations of challengers never had to do that before. So why should these new kids have to?
[QUOTE=Debut Album;417784]Um...Some People actually do watch The challenges just because of CT.
And Fresh Meat? A good Idea? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Casting those Rejects has done nothing but Ruin these shows. How in the **** is it a good idea?[/QUOTE]
You're cherry picking my post and missing the point. Of course there are probably CT viewers that watch just for CT and there are probably some fans who watch just for Johnny or Jordan or Laurel. That's not the point. I was refuting lurker's assumption that [I]all[/I] CT fans watch just for CT and that the ensuing loss of his personality on the show would result in a negative viewership in the finals. That's not the case and a logical fallacy on his/her part.
As for Fresh Meat, I still stand by that idea. I didn't like the idea of bringing in noobies without the requisite RW background, but subsequent challenges have changed my mind. To this day I still despise Kenny and Evan, but there were definitely members of that cast that helped infuse fresh blood and new drama on the show. Just because [I]you[/I] don't like them doesn't mean having them on the show was a mistake.
[QUOTE=Debut Album;417801]And what's gonna happen if they do? we're still going to have to put up with their ***** every season. and LOL @ think they have to take the "Big dogs' out The generations of challengers never had to do that before. So why should these new kids have to?[/QUOTE]
Are you delusional? To be in the final, you have to take out the best or prove your better. Is this not simple to understand. If you can't beat bananas, why do you deserve it more than him? That makes no sense. They keep brining in new people and they can't hang. Leroy was supposed to be the new one...nothing. Zach, eh, he's been so-so. He doesn't compare to the force CT had when he was starting. Not even close. Now frank on the other hand, that's guys really good. Bring in cory, Brian, jay g(who laughably compared himself to CT) and tom from explosion. Let them get wiped out.
[QUOTE=Heelin';417803]You're cherry picking my post and missing the point. Of course there are probably CT viewers that watch just for CT and there are probably some fans who watch just for Johnny or Jordan or Laurel. That's not the point. I was refuting lurker's assumption that [I]all[/I] CT fans watch just for CT and that the ensuing loss of his personality on the show would result in a negative viewership in the finals. That's not the case and a logical fallacy on his/her part.
As for Fresh Meat, I still stand by that idea. I didn't like the idea of bringing in noobies without the requisite RW background, but subsequent challenges have changed my mind. To this day I still despise Kenny and Evan, but there were definitely members of that cast that helped infuse fresh blood and new drama on the show. Just because [I]you[/I] don't like them doesn't mean having them on the show was a mistake.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what anyone has against the FM cast anyway. I have only seen a handful of the challenge cast in the RW show anyway. What difference does it make if they were on the RW first? One of the worst arguments ever. Debuts hatred for them is pretty funny though. The fact of the matter is some of the best competitors in challenge history came from the fresh meat seasons.
[QUOTE=Heelin';417803]You're cherry picking my post and missing the point. Of course there are probably CT viewers that watch just for CT and there are probably some fans who watch just for Johnny or Jordan or Laurel. That's not the point. I was refuting lurker's assumption that [I]all[/I] CT fans watch just for CT and that the ensuing loss of his personality on the show would result in a negative viewership in the finals. That's not the case and a logical fallacy on his/her part.
[B]As for Fresh Meat, I still stand by that idea. I didn't like the idea of bringing in noobies without the requisite RW background, but subsequent challenges have changed my mind. To this day I still despise Kenny and Evan, but there were definitely members of that cast that helped infuse fresh blood and new drama on the show. Just because [I]you[/I] don't like them doesn't mean having them on the show was a mistake.[/B][/QUOTE]
It's not a matter of me not liking them. LOOK what they have done to this Franchise. Ever since they came on the challenge they have not been good(With a few excpetions). And what New Drama did they provide? What Fresh Blood did they get that they couldn't get from actual RW alumni? None of the Drama or Storylines they provided were good in the least. It was a Mistake to bring them on the challenges. They have no business on here.
[QUOTE=27502;417823]I'm not sure what anyone has against the FM cast anyway. I have only seen a handful of the challenge cast in the RW show anyway. What difference does it make if they were on the RW first? One of the worst arguments ever. Debuts hatred for them is pretty funny though. The fact of the matter is some of the best competitors in challenge history came from the fresh meat seasons.[/QUOTE]
This show is called The Real World/Road Rules Challenge. This show is meant to have various castembers from THe Real World and Road Rules come together to interact with each other and compete. The Fresh Meat don't fit into that at all. If I wanted to watch random people compete I'd watch The Dozen other reality shows that provide that.
And I don't care how good of competitors they are. That means nothing to me.
[QUOTE=Viegasjuice;417820]Are you delusional? To be in the final, you have to take out the best or prove your better. Is this not simple to understand. If you can't beat bananas, why do you deserve it more than him? That makes no sense. They keep brining in new people and they can't hang. Leroy was supposed to be the new one...nothing. Zach, eh, he's been so-so. He doesn't compare to the force CT had when he was starting. Not even close. Now frank on the other hand, that's guys really good. Bring in cory, Brian, jay g(who laughably compared himself to CT) and tom from explosion. Let them get wiped out.[/QUOTE]
Um The new kids are good and they can compete. It's just they don't take backpack out because they're all friends with him and people on this show don't really vote their friends in unless they have to. As long as people aren't willing to say his name and take him on he's going to keep walking to the end unscathed. As for CT..people are just scared to go against him despite it being proven that he can be beaten...So it's not about them being bad.
[QUOTE=27502;417823]I'm not sure what anyone has against the FM cast anyway. I have only seen a handful of the challenge cast in the RW show anyway. What difference does it make if they were on the RW first? One of the worst arguments ever. Debuts hatred for them is pretty funny though. The fact of the matter is some of the best competitors in challenge history came from the fresh meat seasons.[/QUOTE]
My initial aversion to their inclusion on the Challenge was due in part to the fact that we knew nothing about them. The Challenge has always been about RW/RR cast members. I'm old school I guess, I've been watching the challenge since its inception and RW used to be one of my favorite shows. So I guess that's why I was such a purist at first. However, since they've cancelled RR, you could tell production needed new blood for the show. I think the RW pool of people still interested doing this show is much smaller than it used to be since some of them are obviously too old or they no longer care about their past RW/RR roots. I still recall the hard time other castmates gave Cyrus from Boston got when he came back to do a challenge. That was one of my favorite RW seasons and I was unhappy to see him singled out. I guess v1man no longer posts? It'd be nice to know how many cast members are still willing to do a challenge.
Either way, I've stopped watching RW for quite a while now. I have no history with any of the recent RW casts and outside of a couple of the newer RW regular Challenge castmembers (Zach, Frank, Dustin, Jordan etc) not many of them has made an impression on me. At least some of the FM cast members have been memorable. They're competitive and plenty of them seem to be good friends with a lot of the RW regulars. They're real cast members as much as anyone else now.
[QUOTE=Debut Album;417853]It's not a matter of me not liking them. LOOK what they have done to this Franchise. Ever since they came on the challenge they have not been good(With a few excpetions). And what New Drama did they provide? What Fresh Blood did they get that they couldn't get from actual RW alumni? None of the Drama or Storylines they provided were good in the least. It was a Mistake to bring them on the challenges. They have no business on here.[/QUOTE]
How about Diem? Cara Maria? Diem alone has provided an enormous contribution to the challenges simply because of her association with CT and her bout with cancer. I'm not a Diem fan, but there's no doubt that she always provides a storyline when she participates. And whether you like them or not Kenny and Evan definitely brought drama to the house. What is your definition of good? Are you blaming the decline of the Challenges on the FM cast? There's plenty of reasons why the show is waning in popularity, but it's silly to lay that blame solely on the feet of the FM cast.
[QUOTE=JEKFAN;417919]It isn't even worth arguing with Debut.... Debut hates every cast member basically.[/QUOTE]
I think we've heard the same arguments against any FM cast member again and again. Props to Debut to sticking to his belief but no matter what we say, DA's mind won't be changed.
[QUOTE=Heelin';417916]
How about Diem? Cara Maria? Diem alone has provided an enormous contribution to the challenges simply because of her association with CT and her bout with cancer. I'm not a Diem fan, but there's no doubt that she always provides a storyline when she participates. And whether you like them or not Kenny and Evan definitely brought drama to the house. What is your definition of good? Are you blaming the decline of the Challenges on the FM cast? There's plenty of reasons why the show is waning in popularity, but it's silly to lay that blame solely on the feet of the FM cast.[/QUOTE]
Diem? No. I commend her for battling Cancer but I feel like her Story could've been better told on The Real World or True life. I never felt that her Cancer battle belonged on these shows. I never cared about her relationship with CT.
Cara Maria? Nope
Evan and Kenny? **** NO! you're right in that they did provide drama but it wasn't the good kind of drama. Everything they said and did was painful and sad to watch.
But you're right though. I can't blame the challenges sucking on The Fresh Meat Soley but they are a part of it.
If you want to know what I find good..Check The Battle of the Seasons 1-Gauntlet 2 Era
[QUOTE=JEKFAN;417919]It isn't even worth arguing with Debut.... Debut hates every cast member basically.[/QUOTE]
NO I don't. Plenty of Castmembers I like.
Based on the sneak peek of Theresa asking Leroy I would make a prediction that Nany/theresa maybe win this mission? Since she made it seem like she was asking him why she shouldn't vote him in?
For the guys obviously Zach/CT
[QUOTE=Debut Album;417953]Diem? No. I commend her for battling Cancer but I feel like her Story could've been better told on The Real World or True life. I never felt that her Cancer battle belonged on these shows. I never cared about her relationship with CT.
Cara Maria? Nope
Evan and Kenny? **** NO! you're right in that they did provide drama but it wasn't the good kind of drama. Everything they said and did was painful and sad to watch.
But you're right though. I can't blame the challenges sucking on The Fresh Meat Soley but they are a part of it.
[B]If you want to know what I find good..Check The Battle of the Seasons 1-Gauntlet 2 Era[/B][/QUOTE]
100% with you there
[QUOTE=Debut Album;417953]Diem? No. I commend her for battling Cancer but I feel like her Story could've been better told on The Real World or True life. I never felt that her Cancer battle belonged on these shows. I never cared about her relationship with CT.
Cara Maria? Nope
Evan and Kenny? **** NO! you're right in that they did provide drama but it wasn't the good kind of drama. Everything they said and did was painful and sad to watch.
But you're right though. I can't blame the challenges sucking on The Fresh Meat Soley but they are a part of it.
If you want to know what I find good..Check The Battle of the Seasons 1-Gauntlet 2 Era[/QUOTE]
I'm going to take JEK's advice and make this last statement because I think we're arguing in circles. For one, it doesn't matter if you didn't like the execution of Diem's storyline. It doesn't change the fact that Diem [I]does[/I] have a story whenever she participates, which is much more than what the majority of other castmates have to offer. Her battle with cancer was a small byline in the overall challenge and it wasn't over done, so I had no problem with its inclusion. Even if [B]you[/B] don't care about her relationship with CT, [B]other[/B] people did. It's not the Debut Album Challenge, the producers focus on what they think will sell to viewers and obviously the CT/Diem story had an audience.
What is your argument against Cara Maria? She has a presence on the show whether you're willing to acknowledge it or not. So again, I think you're purposely being dense here.
I don't even want to debate the issues of good/bad drama. Drama is drama, and obviously you're biased when it comes to FM.
Zach said in the aftershow online thing that his endurance isn't great, perhaps hinting at what is to come? Makes me think he would have struggled in the rivals 1 and exes final too. Being a huge guy doesn't cater to these finals really.
[QUOTE=jojorules;418215]Zach said in the aftershow online thing that his endurance isn't great, perhaps hinting at what is to come? Makes me think he would have struggled in the rivals 1 and exes final too. Being a huge guy doesn't cater to these finals really.[/QUOTE]
I guess that proves that Zach is pure size only, he is not the strongest, doesn't have good endurance and is kind of dumb when it comes to make decisions for a guy who is a gym rat, and does crossfit like a crazy I would expect more.
[QUOTE=stuufman;418228]I guess that proves that Zach is pure size only, he is not the strongest, doesn't have good endurance and is kind of dumb when it comes to make decisions for a guy who is a gym rat, and does crossfit like a crazy I would expect more.[/QUOTE]
Yea, that's what i thought of him after i saw him allow frank to take reigns of team san diego on season. Something seemed off about how willing he was to do that for being the next big thing and all this hype. I even mentioned hwo frank was the leader of that team and made all the moves and zach was doing stupid chest bump empty threats which was annoying.
I agree with you though, he pretty much is strength, speed in short bursts, and a master of disney trivia
[QUOTE=Heelin';418174]I'm going to take JEK's advice and make this last statement because I think we're arguing in circles. For one, it doesn't matter if you didn't like the execution of Diem's storyline. It doesn't change the fact that Diem [I]does[/I] have a story whenever she participates, which is much more than what the majority of other castmates have to offer. Her battle with cancer was a small byline in the overall challenge and it wasn't over done, so I had no problem with its inclusion. Even if [B]you[/B] don't care about her relationship with CT, [B]other[/B] people did. It's not the Debut Album Challenge, the producers focus on what they think will sell to viewers and obviously the CT/Diem story had an audience.
Execution does matter.
What is your argument against Cara Maria? She has a presence on the show whether you're willing to acknowledge it or not. So again, I think you're purposely being dense here.
I don't even want to debate the issues of good/bad drama. Drama is drama, and obviously you're biased when it comes to FM.[/QUOTE]
No Diem didn't have a storyline every time. I don't recall her having a story on The Gauntlet 3 or on The Ruins. And you know what? Just because they had a storyline doesn't mean she contributes to this show and storylines need to be good and her's wasn't. And I don't care if other people liked her little romacne with CT. That doesn't make it good.
And as For Cara Maria...She's entitled,whiney,and this "poor me" Bull**** is tired and played out. I'm tired of her and she needs to retire.
And it's funny how you call me Bias but you say that Diem has offered more than a lot of other castmembers...THAT IS Bull****.
We don't love the fresh meat so much that we'll defend them in any situation. We just see everyone as equal cast members- FM/RR/RW, [I]all[/I]of them. If a cast member does something unlikeable/something I don't like, I won't defend them- FM or not. It just happens that they are FM right now. Come a week or so, it will probably change.
We defend Cara because she deserves to be there. I personally feel bad for her bc she went in 3 eliminations and may go home because of a bum hand. She deserves to be in the final. - in my opinion of course.
At the same time, Laurel, another FM,some of us didn't like her behaviour this season thus far.
Circumstantial .
[QUOTE=Debut Album;417862]Um The new kids are good and they can compete. It's just they don't take backpack out because they're all friends with him and people on this show don't really vote their friends in unless they have to. As long as people aren't willing to say his name and take him on he's going to keep walking to the end unscathed. As for CT..people are just scared to go against him despite it being proven that he can be beaten...So it's not about them being bad.[/QUOTE]
Lots never been proved CT can be beaten. He's beaten himself. No one has taken that man out. Like I said. Bring the new guys on, watch them get wiped out.
[QUOTE=Viegasjuice;418272]Lots never been proved CT can be beaten. He's beaten himself. No one has taken that man out. Like I said. Bring the new guys on, watch them get wiped out.[/QUOTE]
Backpack did..Sort of.
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