The Challenge: Rivals - Wes Bergmann

I can easily see how CT can be the most athletic but not well rounded. The criteria they agreed on was not about who is strictly the best athlete, it was who plays the best all around game. If it was strictly the most athletic, he likely would not have put Johnny and Kenny in his top 5.

Wes' omissions in either case are pretty iffy though. If it's not best athlete (where CT and Landon should be ranked on top) and best all around competitor then Darrell pretty much perfected the social aspect of the game that Brad, John, Kenny, and Derrick adopted to get most of their wins. Either way, it's Wes' list and I doubt he'll name off people he genuinely dislikes (Darrell) or someone in his mind he feels have weak social games. Maybe he's bitter that Landon sent him in against Evelyn in FM2 or still remembers CT's DQs very clearly on the Duel, or maybe he has info from Rivals they haven't revealed about CT that he's basing his opinion on. In any case, his list isn't the most outrageous one I've seen.

[QUOTE=Blue123;261449]Puck was a complete ******* Wes is nothing like him, and he wasn't cocky at all on the podcast, I just don't like the fact that he complimented [B]Derrick, Kenny and Johnny when those guys talk so much **** about him and I guess they don't say it to his face, he needs to get on twitter!![/B][/QUOTE]Yup. After acting like he was his best friend on the podcast with him and Nehemiah, saying stuff like "We definitely need to take a shot to that the next time I see you!", he goes immediately back to trashing him on the very next podcast with Mark and Brandon and using some of the stuff he said on the podcast to try to make him look bad. He even tried to stop Brandon from saying anything good about Wes. Also, it seems like Derrick finds a way to bring up Wes in every podcast, even when his guests really don't have any interaction with him on the show. He's constantly trying to force his guests to say something bad about him. Derrick is ultimately making himself look much worse than Wes by doing this.

[QUOTE=ClubSandwich;262164]Wes' omissions in either case are pretty iffy though. If it's not best athlete (where CT and Landon should be ranked on top) and best all around competitor then [B]Darrell pretty much perfected the social aspect of the game that Brad, John, Kenny, and Derrick adopted to get most of their wins.[/B] Either way, it's Wes' list and I doubt he'll name off people he genuinely dislikes (Darrell) or someone in his mind he feels have weak social games. Maybe he's bitter that Landon sent him in against Evelyn in FM2 or still remembers CT's DQs very clearly on the Duel, or maybe he has info from Rivals they haven't revealed about CT that he's basing his opinion on. In any case, his list isn't the most outrageous one I've seen.[/QUOTE] I don't see how Darrell perfected the social game. When we used to see him frequently, it was back in the day, where there wasn't much manipulation. He was always on the winning team. Road Rules seemed to always dominate Real World. It was kind of annoying, because I was always team Real World. As far as best all around males, I'd have to say Johnny, Evan, and Wes.

[QUOTE=JEK & Wes;262183]Yup. After acting like he was his best friend on the podcast with him and Nehemiah, saying stuff like "We definitely need to take a shot to that the next time I see you!", he goes immediately back to trashing him on the very next podcast with Mark and Brandon and using some of the stuff he said on the podcast to try to make him look bad. He even tried to stop Brandon from saying anything good about Wes. Also, it seems like Derrick finds a way to bring up Wes in every podcast, even when his guests really don't have any interaction with him on the show. He's constantly trying to force his guests to say something bad about him. Derrick is ultimately making himself look much worse than Wes by doing this.[/QUOTE] I just listened to the podcast. I found it funny when Brandon said he had a great time with Wes before they flew out to Costa Rica and Derrick chimed in and said "He's trying to suck in." LOL seriously? It's like any chance he gets, he tries to bash him and yet when he did the podcast with him, he acted cordial towards him. I would really like to know why he hates him so much.

In the earlier challenges that Darrell did, a lot of competitors were not afraid of going into the elimination round. Hard to believe now, but people actually VOLUNTEERED to go into Gauntlets and Infernos. Darrell, however, was an early pioneer in the art of "keeping my *** out of elimination rounds at all costs." JEK (and now Wes, apparently) took this art and perfected it for subsequent challenges.

[QUOTE=JEK & Wes;262183]Yup. After acting like he was his best friend on the podcast with him and Nehemiah, saying stuff like "We definitely need to take a shot to that the next time I see you!", he goes immediately back to trashing him on the very next podcast with Mark and Brandon and using some of the stuff he said on the podcast to try to make him look bad. He even tried to stop Brandon from saying anything good about Wes. Also, it seems like Derrick finds a way to bring up Wes in every podcast, even when his guests really don't have any interaction with him on the show. He's constantly trying to force his guests to say something bad about him. Derrick is ultimately making himself look much worse than Wes by doing this.[/QUOTE] Yeah it's really annoying, especially since Mark and Brandon's podcast was done before Wes' was released so they didn't even hear Wes' podcast, Derrick even tried to change what he said, he never said he was the best he said he was one of the best. And he didn't "feed" Nehemiah to CT, Evan wanted to quit and he volunteered, and why is Wes getting blamed? Did every one forget that Evan is also Johnny/Kenny's friend but he doesn't say they're throwing him under the bus, and you know what Wes' explanation made sense.If you dont like him then dont be fake ask him the tough questions and let him explain cause god knows Wes will give an elaborate answer, if you don't want to say the **** to his face then keep your mouth shut when he's not around, really showed how two faced Derrick is cause Wes had no idea that Derrick didn't like him. And god forbid Brandon says he had a good time with Wes off camera, Derrick has to go and say oh thats impossible he's "sucking you in" yeah he's manipulating Brandon into having a good time, like get over yourself dude.

[QUOTE=ClubSandwich;262164]Wes' omissions in either case are pretty iffy though. If it's not best athlete (where CT and Landon should be ranked on top) and best all around competitor then Darrell pretty much perfected the social aspect of the game that Brad, John, Kenny, and Derrick adopted to get most of their wins. Either way, it's Wes' list and I doubt he'll name off people he genuinely dislikes (Darrell) or someone in his mind he feels have weak social games. Maybe he's bitter that Landon sent him in against Evelyn in FM2 or still remembers CT's DQs very clearly on the Duel, or maybe he has info from Rivals they haven't revealed about CT that he's basing his opinion on. In any case, his list isn't the most outrageous one I've seen.[/QUOTE] I think you're having a selective memory when it comes to Darrell and his social game skills (Imo he has only ever demonstrated any social competency in one challenge though in the others he never needed to or was in an irreparable situation). In the Gauntlet, the road rules team threw Sarah in five times. The men were constantly playing the *** card as justification for their voting. There were only three men selected (Laterrian and Abram due to dq's and Steve (x2) because of his lack of athleticism). For Inferno 1, only two men from road rules were sent into an elimination game with Jeremy volunteering twice (Shane being the other). A rotation was put into place half way through the season and resulted with Timmy being chosen over Darrell due to the real world team fearing his athleticism. However, the Road rulers' plan was to throw in Katie the entire time (orchestrated mainly by veronica according to editing). Fresh meat was very well played by Darrell and contained timely wins. For the Ruins, he was the odd man out of the JEK and D alliance and was basically their new whipping boy after Wes left until his dq by hitting Brad. Fresh meat 2 he was ganged up on by Wes and Kenny's alliances and was eliminated first. When I look back on his challenges (especially his first three) I remember Darrell as a great (not all time though! Will explain below) athletic competitor who stayed low and made as little noise as possible. To me, the great male social game players are the ones who dictate and lead alliances not just stay quiet. Also Wes' well rounded explanation can be somewhat justified to disqualify Darrell. He himself stated (ruins) how Wes could beat him in both the air and water (two major components in most challenges) and according to Cara Maria neither of them could do the puzzles (fresh meat II). These plus a somewhat questionable social game make a case for Darrell to be out of the top five imo. All that being said, Darrell was one of the best challenge athletes but did have some glaring weaknesses as a player (imo). Also, Wes' statement that he doesn't think Darrell and Landon are very good is just asinine. Other reasons why Wes could be discrediting Darrell (other than just personal animosity): Fans overlook the fact that Darrell has only ever won a single individual mission. He was a constant top performer but almost never won a life shield in his first three challenges. He also never went into a single elimination round in his first three challenges. IMO his greatest strengths was his endurance and pace. When paired with an overall strong female competitor (she was the second female pick) in Fresh Meat (Aviv who was a perfect partner to him strengths wise) he won another two missions and the challenge.

[QUOTE=Blue123;262197]Yeah it's really annoying, especially since Mark and Brandon's podcast was done before Wes' was released so they didn't even hear Wes' podcast, Derrick even tried to change what he said, he never said he was the best he said he was one of the best. And he didn't "feed" Nehemiah to CT, Evan wanted to quit and he volunteered, and why is Wes getting blamed? [B]Did every one forget that Evan is also Johnny/Kenny's friend but he doesn't say they're throwing him under the bus[/B], and you know what Wes' explanation made sense.If you dont like him then dont be fake ask him the tough questions and let him explain cause god knows Wes will give an elaborate answer, if you don't want to say the **** to his face then keep your mouth shut when he's not around, really showed how two faced Derrick is cause Wes had no idea that Derrick didn't like him. And god forbid Brandon says he had a good time with Wes off camera, Derrick has to go and say oh thats impossible he's "sucking you in" yeah he's manipulating Brandon into having a good time, like get over yourself dude.[/QUOTE]Very good point. No mention of Johnny being the one who originally suggested Evan/Nehemiah go into the Jungle in the first place.

I like Derrick's podcasts, I really do. But he does a lot of the same on each but since they are so long it doesn't ruin them. He always mentions what if he was in the challenge so people will compliment him, he always mentions CT whenever possible, and he always bashes Wes. My favorite podcasts are the ones with 3 people for sure. Derrick subtly brings up how he is a challenge great too, so he shouldn't really talk. No Greek god comment, but still he tries to boost himself whenever he can.

I came away from this podcast with a slightly more elevated view of Wes, but it IS entirely possible he was playing up the nice guy card for the listeners. If you listen, it doesn't seem like JEK and Derrick are the only people who don't like Wes. Brandon said that even though they hung out he would never say that they're friends. Mark seems not to like him. Jasmine, Jonna, Cara, Laurel, Noor. Adam and Robin have said negative stuff about him on Katie's thing. However, while Derrick is one of my favorite challengers of all time, I think had Kenny or Johnny done a podcast with Wes, they wouldn't have been so fake nice to him. They might've toned it down and not just **** on the guy the whole time, but that would've been better than the fake niceness and occasional passive-aggressive jab. PS Almost everyone I've heard comment on the matter has said: Wes was TERRIFIED of CT...never that Wes AND KENNY were terrified of CT.

I like his podcasts too but now it's just getting annoying, he bashes Wes but doesn't give a reason why. They have no idea Derrick doesn't like them so they go on and think they're having a good chat when their interview will get made fun of later, and that makes them look stupid. I felt bad for CT also, they hound him for a month get him on, they talk all nice then say he'd be good at a **** sucking competition and that Kenny had his back, yeah he really is looking out for him on rivals. Oh and yeah Wes admitted that CT is a big threat but Kenny says he can take him, ya right! Did everyone see how well Kenny climbed that rope? But of course no one says Kenny is scared of CT. @JL8 I think Jonna and Jasmin said they liked Wes on their podcast.

Don't be fooled, Kenny wanted no part of CT either. If he did, he could have easily told his friends to vote him in against him. Apparently he makes all the decisions on the team, but somehow Wes ended up making the executive decision to avoid CT?

[QUOTE=JL81790;262205]I came away from this podcast with a slightly more elevated view of Wes, but it IS entirely possible he was playing up the nice guy card for the listeners. If you listen, it doesn't seem like JEK and Derrick are the only people who don't like Wes. Brandon said that even though they hung out he would never say that they're friends. Mark seems not to like him. Jasmine, Jonna, Cara, Laurel, Noor. Adam and Robin have said negative stuff about him on Katie's thing. However, while Derrick is one of my favorite challengers of all time, I think had Kenny or Johnny done a podcast with Wes, they wouldn't have been so fake nice to him. They might've toned it down and not just **** on the guy the whole time, but that would've been better than the fake niceness and occasional passive-aggressive jab. [B]PS Almost everyone I've heard comment on the matter has said: Wes was TERRIFIED of CT...never that Wes AND KENNY were terrified of CT[/B].[/QUOTE] Those statements confuse me to be honest (if they even are what cast members truly believe). Especially considering that Brandon was in the Derrick role when he had Kenny on his podcast with Kenny saying how scared Wes was. Kenny seems to be the main proprietor of the Wes was/is scared comments. Also, if you look at past history Wes hasn't really ever seemed to be afraid. He got into it with CT after the duel DQ and then wanted to fight Darrell during Ruins. He has always avoided people who he thought could beat him athletically though. I wonder if it is just him trying to win rather than a fear... or maybe he did fear ct but rather it was that he thought Kenny wouldn't be able to take on CT (especially with his "mojo gone"). Also why wouldn't it have been Leroy and Wes getting into the ”you're scared argument” rather than Tyler and Leroy? Leroy doesn't seem to be bothered speaking his mind on his RW season (and after shows) so why wouldn't he have also called out Wes?

[QUOTE=JEK & Wes;262207]Don't be fooled, Kenny wanted no part of CT either. If he did, he could have easily told his friends to vote him in against him. Apparently he makes all the decisions on the team, but somehow Wes ended up making the executive decision to avoid CT?[/QUOTE] Lol but now he says that he isn't afraid of CT and that he was telling Wes that in an elimination Wes would take Adam and he would take CT so Wes shouldn't worry about it, which sounds completely stupid because clearly Wes doesn't have faith in Kenny's abilities and he does have to worry about it because if Kenny fails then he would have to go home too. Wes said CT was the best athlete, so save the scared of CT stuff for Kenny who seems to be delusional. And they all deny that Wes is running the house but yet they act like he's the one coming up with all this stuff like avoiding CT and throwing Evan/Nehemiah in, so which one is it, they cant pick and choose and blame him when it's convenient.

While I think both Wes and Kenny are afraid to go up against CT deep down, Wes certainly shows it a lot more than Kenny does. This is the second challenge now where Wes has done everything in his power and pulled schemes to avoid going up against CT at all costs. While Kenny is probably intimidated too, like he said on their podcast a couple weeks ago, he's never given any soundbyte in his history on the challenges about how CT is a beast or anything like that.

[QUOTE=townie;262243]While I think both Wes and Kenny are afraid to go up against CT deep down, Wes certainly shows it a lot more than Kenny does. This is the second challenge now where Wes has done everything in his power and pulled schemes to avoid going up against CT at all costs. While Kenny is probably intimidated too, like he said on their podcast a couple weeks ago, he's never given any soundbyte in his history on the challenges about how CT is a beast or anything like that.[/QUOTE] As much as I can't stand Kenny, he definitely seems like a pro at knowing what to say and what not to say when the camera is on.

I wasn't saying Kenny isn't afraid to go up against CT...because CT is the best athlete there and I'm sure EVERY guy is afraid to go toe to toe with him. But there's a difference between being quietly intimidated, and noticeably terrified which, according to a number of cast members, Wes was.

This "'X' is the biggest, baddest, strongest, smartest, etc" than everyone is really a silly discussion, imo. If any of you were correct, BMP could save a lot of money on production by having an introductory episode, hand out a check to the the oh-so-obvious winner, and move immediately to the Reunion show.

[QUOTE=V1man;262307]This "'X' is the biggest, baddest, strongest, smartest, etc" than everyone is really a silly discussion, imo. If any of you were correct, BMP could save a lot of money on production by having an introductory episode, hand out a check to the the oh-so-obvious winner, and move immediately to the Reunion show.[/QUOTE] This sounds like something Laurel would spew out at a reunion show.

[QUOTE=Nightwolf;262310]This sounds like something Laurel would spew out at a reunion show.[/QUOTE] I can't speak for Laurel, but I don't "spew."

[QUOTE=V1man;262307]This "'X' is the biggest, baddest, strongest, smartest, etc" than everyone is really a silly discussion, imo. If any of you were correct, BMP could save a lot of money on production by having an introductory episode, hand out a check to the the oh-so-obvious winner, and move immediately to the Reunion show.[/QUOTE] Jesus, thank you. These discussions pollute this forum. Sometimes I feel some guys on here live through guys like CT.

[QUOTE=Blue123;262206]I like his podcasts too but now it's just getting annoying, he bashes Wes but doesn't give a reason why. They have no idea Derrick doesn't like them so they go on and think they're having a good chat when their interview will get made fun of later, and that makes them look stupid. I felt bad for CT also, they hound him for a month get him on, they talk all nice then say he'd be good at a **** sucking competition and that Kenny had his back, yeah he really is looking out for him on rivals. Oh and yeah Wes admitted that CT is a big threat but Kenny says he can take him, ya right! Did everyone see how well Kenny climbed that rope? But of course no one says Kenny is scared of CT. @JL8 I think Jonna and Jasmin said they liked Wes on their podcast.[/QUOTE] Derrick doesn't like Wes because the comments he made in Fresh meat 2 , when he said that he was the best challenge champion of all times and when he said that the castmembers were lower individuals than him, in several podcast every time that the name of Wes is brought up Derrick make reference to those comments. The harsh comment about Ct were made by Johnny and Kenny. Neither Derrick nor Evan have never talked trash about Ct

[QUOTE=alucard666;262385]Derrick doesn't like Wes because the comments he made in Fresh meat 2 , when he said that he was the best challenge champion of all times and when he said that the castmembers were lower individuals than him, in several podcast every time that the name of Wes is brought up Derrick make reference to those comments. The harsh comment about Ct were made by Johnny and Kenny. Neither Derrick nor Evan have never talked trash about Ct[/QUOTE] Well, Derrick does retweet some things about cast members/his podcasts guests on Twitter...positive and negative but that's probably because he wants to get his podcast more hits. Also just wanted to add, on the Ruins, Wes wanted to somehow get Derrick thrown into an elimination round and called Derrick dumb/stupid more than once and it was all said behind Derrick's back. I remember watching it on the Ruins Dailies. Believe it or not, people MIGHT have legit reasons to not like Wes. If people think Derrick, Johnny, Kenny, and Evan are the only cast members on these Challenges that talks **** about Wes or don't like him or a lot of things he does or says....then they're sorely mistaken.

[QUOTE=alucard666;262385]Derrick doesn't like Wes because the comments he made in Fresh meat 2 , when he said that he was the best challenge champion of all times and when he said that the castmembers were lower individuals than him, in several podcast every time that the name of Wes is brought up Derrick make reference to those comments. The harsh comment about Ct were made by Johnny and Kenny. Neither Derrick nor Evan have never talked trash about Ct[/QUOTE] Yeah he says stupid stuff but so what? So does Johnny and Kenny, and Kenny was interviewing CT with Derrick. It seems unreasonable to have so much hate for some one all because of a cocky comment from a TV SHOW, Wes could say other things for hours but of course they would only show the cocky comments, it's tv no need to get worked up. It's not as bad as saying hurtful stuff. @Adrian only recently did he retweet positive stuff before it was all negative and it gets a little silly when he brings up little things like Wes calling Kenny dumb and that his mom is the only one who disagrees, and saying that he can't believe Wes is bringing up his mom and bla bla, like come on.

[QUOTE=Adrian!!!!!!;262389]Well, Derrick does retweet some things about cast members/his podcasts guests on Twitter...positive and negative but that's probably because he wants to get his podcast more hits. Also just wanted to add, on the Ruins, Wes wanted to somehow get Derrick thrown into an elimination round and called Derrick dumb/stupid more than once and it was all said behind Derrick's back. I remember watching it on the Ruins Dailies. Believe it or not, people MIGHT have legit reasons to not like Wes. If people think Derrick, Johnny, Kenny, and Evan are the only cast members on these Challenges that talks **** about Wes or don't like him or a lot of things he does or says....then they're sorely mistaken.[/QUOTE] Whether he has reason to dislike him or not, that's besides the point. It doesn't change the fact that he acted like his best friend when he was interviewing him and Nehemiah, throwing him compliments and giving him a lot of props, only to immediately trash him to his guests in the very next podcast while using what he said to make him look bad. The guy goes as far as to try to force his guests to say something bad about him in every singe podcast, no matter who the guest is.

[QUOTE=Blue123;262391]Yeah he says stupid stuff but so what? So does Johnny and Kenny, and Kenny was interviewing CT with Derrick. It seems unreasonable to have so much hate for some one all because of a cocky comment from a TV SHOW, Wes could say other things for hours but of course they would only show the cocky comments, it's tv no need to get worked up. It's not as bad as saying hurtful stuff. [B]@Adrian only recently did he retweet positive stuff before it was all negative and it gets a little silly when he brings up little things like Wes calling Kenny dumb and that his mom is the only one who disagrees, and saying that he can't believe Wes is bringing up his mom and bla bla, like come on.[/B][/QUOTE] Well, you gotta remember, retweeting it is bad but if he actually said what he retweets it would be much worse. Also, by retweeting that junk it might make people want to listen to his podcast. I'm not agreeing with what Derrick or Kenny or what any of them say/retweet on/about these podcasts and I actually do believe some of the stuff they say is BS.

[QUOTE=JEK & Wes;262392]Whether he has reason to dislike him or not, that's besides the point. It doesn't change the fact that he acted like his best friend when he was interviewing him and Nehemiah, throwing him compliments and giving him a lot of props, only to immediately trash him to his guests in the very next podcast while using what he said to make him look bad. The guy goes as far as to try to force his guests to say something bad about him in every singe podcast, no matter who the guest is.[/QUOTE] Well, Derrick probably had to act mature or like his friend or Wes could easily just hang up. I'm not so much mad about how Derrick acted but about how Wes was really cool to Derrick and complimentary of him just to have Derrick talk about him behind his back. Even as a fan of Derrick...that's where I lost a little bit of respect for Derrick.

[QUOTE=Adrian!!!!!!;262394]Well, you gotta remember, retweeting it is bad but if he actually said what he retweets it would be much worse. Also, by retweeting that junk it might make people want to listen to his podcast. I'm not agreeing with what Derrick or Kenny or any of them say/retweet on/about these podcasts and I actually do believe some of the stuff they say is BS.[/QUOTE] lol but he didn't retweet the mom stuff, he himself tweets stupid stuff about him. I don't mind the retweeting but the silly stuff he tweets makes him look obsessed and that he nitpicks. I don't think he should have been rude to Wes or read him the stupid stuff that the people tweeted but he could have asked him tough questions without being rude or don't go and try and bad mouth him to Mark/Brandon and try to change what he said and try to make him sound worse than he did. Wes is a big boy and he could handle some tougher questions because then he can at least defend himself, like how would Wes feel if he heard the next podcast and hears Derrick say that? Like Wes was so respectful so why go and ruin his good podcast like that? It just ended up making Derrick look bad he should have said to Mark/Brandon to listen to Wes' podcast and judge for themselves.

[QUOTE=Blue123;262397]lol but he didn't retweet the mom stuff, he himself tweets stupid stuff about him. I don't mind the retweeting but the silly stuff he tweets makes him look obsessed and that he nitpicks. I don't think he should have been rude to Wes or read him the stupid stuff that the people tweeted but he could have asked him tough questions without being rude or don't go and try and bad mouth him to Mark/Brandon and try to change what he said and try to make him sound worse than he did.[/QUOTE] I didn't see the mom tweet, so could you fill me in on that ? Also, read my last post and that's how I pretty much feel about the subject.