The Challenge: Rivals II - Discussion (Spoilers)

[QUOTE=TiredOfSex;351627]The one problem I have with this analogy is that you called CT the best competitor to ever appear on the Challenge. If you had said the best physical competitor, then I'd be more likely to agree. As we all know, the Challenge isn't just about the physical. There are puzzles and other various types of eliminations. There's the mental game and alliances such as in Survivor. CT isn't that bright. He's not good at puzzles. And he DQ's in a lot of challenges for not following simple instructions (i.e. against Brad). There are a lot of others who might not be on par with CT physically but have a more well rounded game which would put them ahead of him as best of all time. So best of all time physically is what I'd give him. Not best of all time.[/QUOTE] I do think CT is the best competitor. He is not only good at physical aspects he is good at almost everything. Alliances and strategy dont count when it comes to a persons ability or natural instinct. If you're talking about the game as a whole then ya CT is not the best, but I am talking about as a competitor. CT dominated in the old school era where there were not many physical games and CT dominates in the current era where there are more physical games. For the puzzle aspect, that's indifferent to me. The only person who stands out being amazing at puzzles is Evelyn. There are some who are a little bit better than the rest like sarah adam k and frank (vegas) etc.. Other than that, everyone else is capable of beating each other. Ct did beat Evan in a puzzle to so we know he can at least complete one. We never really seen CT attempt puzzles besides the elimination round (where Evan tried to cheat) and he stepped up and completed it.

I thought Laurel was full of herself, when they asked her about how hard the finals are shes like oh I just do it, you have to ask someone else if theyre hard, like ok just say yes they are hard, if it was such a breeze you would have won. I think she tried not to give too much away, when they asked who might win she hesitated, but obviously said either CT or Johnny. Its a dead give away when they ask about whose going to win and everyone forgets about Zach/Trey, in the beginning we all thought it was a 3 dog race, but since Zach/Trey left half way, Jordan/Marlon and I guess Laurel forget the 1st half of the game

[QUOTE=Blue123;351658]I thought Laurel was full of herself, when they asked her about how hard the finals are shes like oh I just do it, you have to ask someone else if theyre hard, like ok just say yes they are hard, if it was such a breeze you would have won. I think she tried not to give too much away, when they asked who might win she hesitated, but obviously said either CT or Johnny. Its a dead give away when they ask about whose going to win and everyone forgets about Zach/Trey, in the beginning we all thought it was a 3 dog race, but since Zach/Trey left half way, Jordan/Marlon and I guess Laurel forget the 1st half of the game[/QUOTE] Yea she did break down in the cuththroat final so that one must have been hard for her.

Seems like she would do just one more but, then she probably won't who knows. Seems like she took a couple of shots at Paula with the whole picking their partners for later seasons (Exes,Rivals).

[QUOTE=TheCloser;351657]I do think CT is the best competitor. He is not only good at physical aspects he is good at almost everything. Alliances and strategy dont count when it comes to a persons ability or natural instinct. If you're talking about the game as a whole then ya CT is not the best, but I am talking about as a competitor. CT dominated in the old school era where there were not many physical games and CT dominates in the current era where there are more physical games. For the puzzle aspect, that's indifferent to me. The only person who stands out being amazing at puzzles is Evelyn. There are some who are a little bit better than the rest like sarah adam k and frank (vegas) etc.. Other than that, everyone else is capable of beating each other. Ct did beat Evan in a puzzle to so we know he can at least complete one. We never really seen CT attempt puzzles besides the elimination round (where Evan tried to cheat) and he stepped up and completed it.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure why alliances and strategy don't count. It takes ability and instinct to be able to politic and scheme. Something like CT's temper gets him kicked off early on shows too. People use that against him cause they are smarter than him. They know he's hard to beat physically, so they get him to beat himself. The game to me just isn't played through eliminations. It's played throughout the whole time there.

I mean you really can't say CT is the best I think CT is the best physically only. Strategically it's a toss up between Wes,Evan and Johnny. Endurance wise it's Landon. so, you really can't say whose the best. If we actually put everything together overall would have to be either Evan or Mark.

On Laurel, I've always found her to just be honest. Her philosophy about the Finals is really just to focus on each task or obstacle until it is done and then move on to the next one. She does not want to dwell on how hard it might be. But she did mention that you are going all day without getting a chance to stop and eat something which is a tough thing to endure.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;351673]Not on these shows. You just got to have a lot of friends willing to play the game for you and not themselves.[/QUOTE] And why is that? Cause some people are born leaders, and others are followers. It takes skill to be a leader of a group does it not? Just like in any work environment. It takes skill to lead a company.

So what you're trying to say is that no one on the challenges has strategy because those 3 have the best to me.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;351674]None of them are strategic. They just have a bunch of friends on this show willing to play the game for them to get to the end.(well in John and Evan's case. Wes is just an Idiot.)[/QUOTE] Out of all of the castmembers I would say those 3 and Evelyn are the smartest, book smart and strategy wise. I dont know if ppl realize how much thinking is involved in the game, its not shown on the show but I'm sure these ppl think of every possible scenario and every possible outcome and it sounds exhausting to me, its easy to sit back and say oh omg you should have done that or that but keep in mind you get to see both alliances talking on tv in person you have no idea what the enemy is doing or planning, unless you have a mole (Ryan/Jenn on fm2). And I wouldnt call Wes an idiot, I think he does some smart things on this one based on what ppl say about him, the rest of them too, I think book smart may help you in this cause all of them have degreesor maybe it makes you more well rounded, who knows, Ev goes to Harvard now and I think Evan also was in an Ivy League school, theyre some smart ppl on the show. lol I wouldnt think that since ppl consider reality tv ppl to be dumb losers

Yes they play the game different from everybody that's why when they came along they changed the challenges forever. At first the challenges were mostly based on competition and little about strategy and alliance but since those 3 have came into this game 75% is based on strategy and alliance while the other 25% is competition. Evan,Wes and Johnny have all mastered that aspect in their game while a couple of people are almost on that level mainly just Kenny and Frank. Don't see any others being close to them.

[QUOTE=Desertpuma;351675]On Laurel, I've always found her to just be honest. Her philosophy about the Finals is really just to focus on each task or obstacle until it is done and then move on to the next one. She does not want to dwell on how hard it might be. But she did mention that you are going all day without getting a chance to stop and eat something which is a tough thing to endure.[/QUOTE] I'm a big Laurel fan and have always appreciated her honesty and doggedness when it comes to completing challenges. However, I don't think anyone can deny that, physically, people have different constitutions (that don't necessarily arise from lifestyle choices), meaning that going all day without eating could be potentially game-ending for one person, while for someone like Laurel it's ignorable. Things like that are what make her admirable, but if she thinks winning is just a matter of mentality, then I think on a cellular level she is wrong to an extent. Simply said, she might not want to dwell on how hard things are, mentally, since she has the fortitude to withstand those factors. But another person might succumb to the same factors due to many other reasons, not just because they are weak-minded. For example, someone who is diabetic (or even pre-diabetic) and needs to eat regularly in order to sustain their strength, or someone who handles heat exposure less well than another contestant. As I'm "rambling", I'm starting to realize that I'm not directly responding to what you said, but this is just an idea that has popped into my head since hearing what Laurel has to say. I really wish she were on this challenge, anyway... it would make for an even better season.

I think Laurel is finally maturing from these challenges... she's a new school competitor with an old school competitor mentality.

I agree. She got "with it" a lot faster than these other noobs, and I think that is what separates the hopefuls from the ones who KNOW they can out-compete others and really want to do so. Also, the little girl-love-affair between her and Cara Maria is so awesome to see. I've never had a friendship start that way, but I think it's so cute.

As a competitor which focuses on missions, elimination rounds, you would be a fool to not choose CT. As I said if you want to take strategy and social game I dont think CT is the best. I would probably go with Mark long. He never goes in the elimination rounds and is good at a lot of things. But yet again the key word is COMPETITOR, not who's the best challenger. They are not the same thing.

Exactly what you just explain is leading and following.

Huh?? Laurel? Mark? London? Who weights more? who's better than who with people not even on this challenge? If I was a mod i would completely close this thread until the season premiers before it keeps getting out of topic, lol. :P

Off topic? What can even be considered off-topic when it comes to a thread that was originally named "The Challenge: Spring 2013 - Speculation (We Are Seriously Making This $#!t Up Edition"? O.o

[QUOTE=Britney;351706]Off topic? What can even be considered off-topic when it comes to a thread that was originally named "The Challenge: Spring 2013 - Speculation (We Are Seriously Making This $#!t Up Edition"? O.o[/QUOTE] Is not about what the thread was used to be called. Is about what the thread is called right now. I don't expect spoilers or anything cause we already know that lol, but I at least expect to see stuff related to RIVALS 2, not random opinions on who weights more or on who is better than who with people not even on this challenge. Just saying lol.

Yeah, I know. I kinda figured that since it was called "Spring 2013" (which would automatically make it about Rivals II), it would be pretty on topic. And I think it has been, mostly, even with a few mentions of Tyler here and there... who I am grateful is not on this season, by the way. I can't stand him. Overall I don't think it's gone too far off topic, it's always been focused on at least one person who's on this season (mostly CT). :P And again, I agree that weighing more doesn't directly correlate to who's a better competitor, and that competitor and challenger are different things, blah blah.

Yes perfect, but you can use that same sentence replacing Bananas with Evan or Wes.

This was to have evolved into a spoiler thread but has continued to be mostly a speculative one, since very few details of the challenge have actually leaked. This is a good thing, in my opinion. I like a little mystery in my reality TV. I don't expect that you will see much more of substance in the way of spoilers before the premier, if even then, although there may be something about episode 1 before the 10th if a DVD randomly shows up in my mailbox in the next couple of days.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;351696]It's not really a case of leading and following..it's just everyone stupidly allowing a small group of people to control the game by either being on their side or just not doing anything at all.[/QUOTE] If it was so easy to lead a bunch of people, then why isn't anyone able to do it? Why doesn't CT do it?

[QUOTE=TheCloser;351691]As a competitor which focuses on missions, elimination rounds, you would be a fool to not choose CT. As I said if you want to take strategy and social game I dont think CT is the best. I would probably go with Mark long. He never goes in the elimination rounds and is good at a lot of things. But yet again the key word is COMPETITOR, not who's the best challenger. They are not the same thing.[/QUOTE] I think the psychological game is part of the competition too and part of being a competitor. For example, in Laurel's interview, she mentioned that Johnny got into Adam's head so much in Rivals that he didn't trust CT as much as he trusted Johnny. That led to the demise of CT and Adam. Again, all aspects of the game can have an effect on the elimination rounds. Not just the elimination round itself. But anyways, if you're just counting eliminations and missions, then do you happen to know CT's record in eliminations and missions that are solo? And is it the best record out there? I'm curious.

[QUOTE=TiredOfSex;351720]If it was so easy to lead a bunch of people, then why isn't anyone able to do it? Why doesn't CT do it?[/QUOTE] With regard to Rivals II, I'm tempted to say "watch and learn."

[QUOTE=V1man;351724]With regard to Rivals II, I'm tempted to say "watch and learn."[/QUOTE] Well, from the preview, it looks like he screwed up whatever plan he had to send in Johnny and Frank. Plus, he has Wes on his team, who will probably be doing a lot of the strategizing. I will give it to him that he usually has all the women in the palm of his hand though. So he's good at getting votes that way, lol.