[quote=jones10389;77908]I understand he was injured and im saying that a 100 percent Landon would still lose to Brad in the Back off Duel.[/quote]
It is 100% your opinion, not fact..
[quote=Darock1713;77878]I agree wholeheartly with the exception of people calling him out. I think early on would have been a possibility, but after smashing someone in a Push Over Duel or a Back Off, people like Evan and Brad would have jumped back. not to give CT too much credit, but he can climb as well as his unmatched strength. Those Duels don't have DQ technicalities like Duel 1 had. Spot On would have been anyone's chance to take him, but the other 4 duels, he would be a tough out.
Take a look - sorry tj
Evan has won 3 duels, but The Elevator duel was close against Nehemiah. Same for MJ vs Dunbar, Ryan vs Nick. CT is a much stronger competitor than the 3 losers mentioned and would have easily smoked everyone in the Duel minus a Mark or a Lando. Push Over - forget it, same as Back Off. Most competitors have shown a fear about going in, let alone wanting to face someone they are uncertain they could beat.
The only one that I think towards the end that may have tried to take CT on is Landon.[/quote]
Someone else that likes CT =)
[QUOTE=jones10389;77907]Just like Brad i think CT would smoke Landon CT is to big for Landon. Landon is a guy that does well in challenges but in a duel situation can be beat. Also Landon was going to go home anyway becuase Mark,Evan and Brad were the aillance and they basically kept Landon to the end then took him out.[/QUOTE]
I don't think size really matters. Yes, Mark, Brad and Evan planned to take him out, but they would have a hard time taking out a healthy Landon. I do agree Brad is capable of beating a healthy Landon in "back off", but it would have been hard.
It would be hard for any of these big guys to take each other out because there isn't always a 100% guarantee each guy would win over someone else. There, discussion of who is better is over. =)
[quote=faceless;77916]Someone else that likes CT =)[/quote]
Since we're all on the What If CT was on this challenge train, did anyone else see the latest "The Dish" with Paula and Ryan? Seems like they wished CT was there so Evan won't rule the school so much. They were also not sure who he would be partners with. Interesting that they did not assume it was going to be Diem. It would have been a different show if he was on.
[QUOTE=eggs78;77938]Since we're all on the What If CT was on this challenge train, did anyone else see the latest "The Dish" with Paula and Ryan? Seems like they wished CT was there so Evan won't rule the school so much. They were also not sure who he would be partners with.[B] Interesting that they did not assume it was going to be Diem.[/B] It would have been a different show if he was on.[/QUOTE]
This is a good clue that the Internet is awash in arrested development -- or maybe time-arrested thinking. Paula and Ryan are very much aware that Diem has been in a positive relationship for some time, predating The Duel II. Yet the CT/Diem storyline was played out by BMP, particularly on the aftershow, because that is the storyline they want to feed people, and the Internet is such a pliable mass of sponges who rarely think for themselves (except for vevmo).
[QUOTE=dplayer18;77919]I don't think size really matters. Yes, Mark, Brad and Evan planned to take him out, but they would have a hard time taking out a healthy Landon. I do agree Brad is capable of beating a healthy Landon in "back off", but it would have been hard.[/QUOTE]
dplayer, just using your comment as a springboard here.
Because comments fly by so fast here and people can't keep up, I need to advise some of you that while you read my initial comments about Landon's injury and you keep talking about it... many of you missed my revision to those comments. I've been told several good sources that Landon is not materially injured going into the duel with Brad. There is an injury -- a latent one (don't we all have them) which is aggravated during the duel.
As you will soon see, anyone can get injured at any time.
[quote=eggs78;77938]Since we're all on the What If CT was on this challenge train, did anyone else see the latest "The Dish" with Paula and Ryan? Seems like they wished CT was there so Evan won't rule the school so much. They were also not sure who he would be partners with. Interesting that they did not assume it was going to be Diem. It would have been a different show if he was on.[/quote]
It really doesn't seem that Evan is ruling anything anymore. He's riding on coattails and pretty much at the mercy of Mark and Landon because the two of them are the best competitors in the duel. But he has proven himself in some of the competitions already. Just like Coral, Evan entertains me at times. They made a good pair.
[quote=CASTOFF;78152]It really doesn't seem that Evan is ruling anything anymore. He's riding on coattails and pretty much at the mercy of Mark and Landon because the two of them are the best competitors in the duel. But he has proven himself in some of the competitions already. Just like Coral, Evan entertains me at times. They made a good pair.[/quote]
One point for you...:).
[quote=jones10389;77720]I still think Brad could beat a 100 percent Landon in back off. Back off is Brad's kind of game Landon wants like Spot on or Duel Pole Dancing. give Brad some credit and it's yet to be proven that Landon get's injured.[/quote]
No way, when pigs fly will be the day that I agree with you or give Brad credit. I wholeheartedly believe Brad could never beat a 100% Landon. Brad lucked out, big time. Because of this crazy luck, Brad won cash.
[quote=jones10389;77720]Anyway, I think Brad is a decent challenger competitor, but he had a free ride to the Final of all 6 that made it. He didn't Duel until the last one against an injured opponent, he didn't win any individual competitons or team, nor did he do anything except help manipulate a list.
He played a quiet game, and man as much as people loathe CT, I wish he had kept his head because he would have at least disrupted this alliance, and perhaps encouraged someone to take on Brad, Rachel, and Mark earlier.[/quote]
I agree with this statement 100%.
[quote=tjhallow;77905]Or you have chosen to ignore the fact that Landon was injured.
A healthy Landon would have beat Brad in any duel. If it wasn't for the injury, I'm convinced Landon would have won first place.[/quote]
Quoted and agreed with TJ.
Jones, we can agree to disagree, as you believe a 100% healthy Landon would still lose to Brad in a duel. A few of us completely disagree with you.
There is no doubt in my mind that a healthy Landon would of beaten Brad in any of the five duels. I understand that the majority of the severity of Landon's injuries was sustained in his Duel, but that still affects his ability, rendering it greatly.
And to be honest, I feel Brad is the weakest of the four remaining players. Lando and Mark are definitely top dogs, with Evan behind. While Brad has done better than Evan in challenges, I believe Evan could easily beat Brad in any duel as well.
Instead, Christmas came early for Brad. Luck and past eliminated competitor stupidity seems to be the only reason Brad made it to the end.
I'm no athlete, so I really wouldn't know what competing, injured or not, is like. From what V1man has stated (and I'm hoping I didn't misconstrue it completely), it sounds like Landon's injury has been there for some time, and he wasn't going into this duel in some newly deteriorated state. If the shoulder injury was only aggravated during the Duel with Brad, it sounds to me like he was forced to some breaking point. Maybe that means Brad put up a good fight. I don't know.
I was rooting for Landon myself, as well as Brad. So it's not like I'm coming in here with a preference either player. I was convinced, until I read otherwise, that he would have [I]likely[/I] won the whole challenge if he made it to the end (save for another unfortunate circumstance). Landon might have had the advantage in most Duel games if not all. (I'm actually not so sure about Elevator. Landon ultimately beat him in the Burnt challenge, but Brad held his own - I don't know, maybe it could've gone either way on any other day.) But even if injuries or DQs weren't a factor, a tough out doesn't mean an impossible one. If someone were truly unbeatable under normal circumstances, the competition would seem a bit pointless to me.
The way Brad made it to the end was lucky, but it's not like he's been a horrible competitor all challenge. He does what he can with what he's given. Luck is just a part of these things as much as skill and strategy. I watch these challenges hoping for some happy unpredictable outcome. I wasn't hoping for Landon's fate, but we don't always get happy surprises like, say, Kim's performance.
That said... speaking of injuries and shockers, I started following this challenge ready to give Diem another chance, since she didn't do anything for me on previous challenges. And she really surprised me, especially in this week's episode. So now I'm a bit sad to knowing that she was injured toward the end, because I really do think she'd hold her own in a final mission (maybe not beat someone like Rachel, but finish respectably).
[quote=frakntoaster;78199]I'm no athlete, so I really wouldn't know what competing, injured or not, is like. From what V1man has stated (and I'm hoping I didn't misconstrue it completely), it sounds like Landon's injury has been there for some time, and he wasn't going into this duel in some newly deteriorated state. If the shoulder injury was only aggravated during the Duel with Brad, it sounds to me like he was forced to some breaking point. Maybe that means Brad put up a good fight. I don't know.
I was rooting for Landon myself, as well as Brad. So it's not like I'm coming in here with a preference either player. I was convinced, until I read otherwise, that he would have [I]likely[/I] won the whole challenge if he made it to the end (save for another unfortunate circumstance). Landon might have had the advantage in most Duel games if not all. (I'm actually not so sure about Elevator. Landon ultimately beat him in the Burnt challenge, but Brad held his own - I don't know, maybe it could've gone either way on any other day.) But even if injuries or DQs weren't a factor, a tough out doesn't mean an impossible one. If someone were truly unbeatable under normal circumstances, the competition would seem a bit pointless to me.
The way Brad made it to the end was lucky, but it's not like he's been a horrible competitor all challenge. He does what he can with what he's given. Luck is just a part of these things as much as skill and strategy. I watch these challenges hoping for some happy unpredictable outcome. I wasn't hoping for Landon's fate, but we don't always get happy surprises like, say, Kim's performance.
That said... speaking of injuries and shockers, I started following this challenge ready to give Diem another chance, since she didn't do anything for me on previous challenges. And she really surprised me, especially in this week's episode. So now I'm a bit sad to knowing that she was injured toward the end, because I really do think she'd hold her own in a final mission (maybe not beat someone like Rachel, but finish respectably).[/quote]
I definitely agree with you on Diem and her performance. I would of preferred to see her stay for the finals instead of someone like Aneesa, but my preferences and wishes never seem to come true anyway ;)
I do favor Landon, because he is my all time favorite. I find Landon, The Miz, and CT the three best competitors in these challenges (personal opinion from watching every challenge they have been on, their challenge wins, elimination rounds, and overall performance, etc).
I am an athlete, I play college soccer - not like that has anything to do with it, but I have competed hurt and competed completely healthy. And while I understand that Landon had an underlying injury prior, and that his Duel against Brad aggravated it to the point of needing surgery, I still firmly believe that the aggravation in the Duel led to Landon losing it. Without the injury, prior or Duel produced, it affected Landon and gave Brad the win. There isn't a doubt in my mind. On each show that both have been on together (is it Inferno II and Duel II only?) Landon has out performed Brad every single time.
I will admit that I do not give Brad enough credit. He is a good competitor, and I just recently watched Inferno II duel with Abe. It was pretty darn close, and Brad put up a hell of a fight.
So while I believe Brad is not able to beat Evan or a healthy Lando, I think Brad actually could beat Mark Long in a Duel.
[QUOTE=CASTOFF;78152]It really doesn't seem that Evan is ruling anything anymore. He's riding on coattails and pretty much at the mercy of Mark and Landon because the two of them are the best competitors in the duel. But he has proven himself in some of the competitions already. Just like Coral, Evan entertains me at times. They made a good pair.[/QUOTE]
He never was "ruling" anything. There was a group plan from the beginning. As there are fewer players in the game, the editors can now look at others in a little more depth and not have it appear that Evan is constantly the puppet master. I wrote weeks ago that this kind of an edit for Evan was not sustainable because it is fictional.
More on the Landon injury..
Landon arrived in New Zealand with the latent injury. He's had it for a long time. He did exceptionally well in everything up to the point of his duel with Brad. If I had not written about it or you had not inferred something from Landon's own blog, we would not have all of this discussion.
Those of you wishing to be dismissive of Brad simply because Landon aggravates an old injury during their duel are ignoring the potential that Brad could also have competed with past injuries as well. Almost anyone who has a passion for competition, as many of these players do, will sustain injuries over the years. Some come back to haunt us at the most inopportune times. I judge the risk as equal to them both entering this duel (although I'll allow for the possibility an interview question about the injury to Landon after his duel loss that could be inserted into the storyline at an earlier point--rarely are interviews linear).
I think we are in for a powerful episode in two weeks. Thus, why not save the debate for the future episode discussion thread, because the back and forth about who may be better is bring us close to closing this thread. Not one of you are bringing anything new to the debate. All the spoilers are out there except for how the final mission goes down. That you will just have to watch and enjoy (or hate).
[quote=V1man;78202][B]He never was "ruling" anything.[/B] There was a group plan from the beginning. As there are fewer players in the game, the editors can now look at others in a little more depth and not have it appear that Evan is constantly the puppet master. I wrote weeks ago that this kind of an edit for Evan was not sustainable because it is fictional.[/quote]
I have been trying to say that forever. Does anyone really think Mark, Landon, or Brad even for that matter would take orders from Evan Starkman? Seriously..
MJ is next to go home? I know he loses to Evan but which game do they play? Also i say to settle this lets have a 100percent Brad vs a 100 percent Landon in a Back off Duel street style no TJ no Duel just 1 on 1 haha.
[quote=jones10389;78304]MJ is next to go home? I know he loses to Evan but which game do they play? Also i say to settle this lets have a 100percent Brad vs a 100 percent Landon in a Back off Duel street style no TJ no Duel just 1 on 1 haha.[/quote]
From what I have seen so far is that if they do 2 duels one day, they don't perform those same 2 duels the next. MJ vs Evan will be between Back Off, Duel Pole Dance, and The Elevator.
Sounds like to me MJ and Aneesa are left last and must pick their opponent. the next episode should be real entertaining.
I guess Rach isn't that interested in saving Aneesa afterall, I guess not at the cost of screwing someone like Evan or Brad. Yet in fairness, with only 5M/5F left, there could have been an agreeed pecking order established to place the worse performer in the duel via the voting.
As for the Landon situation, while I was surprised to learn he lost to Brad, I was more surprised based on his performance throughout the challenges that he finished no better than 3rd on the last challenge prior to the duel. V1man, you also stated that he was injured days before the final, which may be some cause as to why people (myself included) attribute Landon's duel loss.
The previews show them in an intense battle and actually show Landon getting the best of Brad in the 1 clip I saw.
[QUOTE=Darock1713;78309]From what I have seen so far is that if they do 2 duels one day, they don't perform those same 2 duels the next. MJ vs Evan will be between Back Off, Duel Pole Dance, and The Elevator.
Sounds like to me MJ and Aneesa are left last and must pick their opponent. the next episode should be real entertaining.
I guess Rach isn't that interested in saving Aneesa afterall, I guess not at the cost of screwing someone like Evan or Brad. Yet in fairness, with only 5M/5F left, there could have been an agreeed pecking order established to place the worse performer in the duel via the voting.
As for the Landon situation, while I was surprised to learn he lost to Brad, I was more surprised based on his performance throughout the challenges that he finished no better than 3rd on the last challenge prior to the duel. [B]V1man, you also stated that he was injured days before the final, which may be some cause as to why people (myself included) attribute Landon's duel loss. [/B]
The previews show them in an intense battle and actually show Landon getting the best of Brad in the 1 clip I saw.[/QUOTE]
And as soon as I learned more from additional sources who read my comments here, I immediately issued a correction. I've actually written the SAME correction three times now, not that anyone wishes to acknowledge it.
On an unrelated note, the commercial for this week's episode says there are only two episodes left. Shouldn't there be three? Two more eliminations for each gender and then the final? Or does one episode cover all four eliminations/ two eliminations and the final?
Does anyone feel like this past episode and the ones coming up are going to be more interesting? Aside from the Aneesa-Jenn-Rachel jerry springer drama, I like seeing the power players go at it. And even the dailies have been a little more interesting.
Interesting enough, I felt the same way about the last couple of episodes during the Real World Brooklyn.
Edit: MrsPlumBean --I think the Brad/Landon Duel will take place the same episode as the final mission.
[QUOTE=tjhallow;78332]Does anyone feel like these this past episode and the ones coming up are going to be more interesting? Aside from the Aneesa-Jenn-Rachel jerry springer drama, I like seeing the power players go at it. And even the dailies have been a little more interesting.
Interesting enough, I felt the same way about the last couple of episodes during the Real World Brooklyn.[/QUOTE]
I remember a few months ago, V said that depending on how the episodes were edited, the last three episodes are probably going to be among the best in challenge history.
[quote=tjhallow;78332]Does anyone feel like this past episode and the ones coming up are going to be more interesting? Aside from the Aneesa-Jenn-Rachel jerry springer drama, I like seeing the power players go at it. And even the dailies have been a little more interesting.
Interesting enough, I felt the same way about the last couple of episodes during the Real World Brooklyn.
Edit: MrsPlumBean --I think the Brad/Landon Duel will take place the same episode as the final mission.[/quote]
I agree with that since they're only 2 episodes left. Chances are both duels will take place in the same episode of the Final Mission.
I think the Tori/Aneesa duel will follow that of Brad/Landon's. I'm still trying to figure exactly how will they shove 4 Duels and 3 Challenges in 2-1hr episodes.
My guess is we may see 2 challenges next week, the MJ/Evan and Aneesa/Diem duels and the beginning of the Brad/Landon Duel with the appropriate suspending cut off.
[QUOTE=Darock1713;78341]I agree with that since they're only 2 episodes left. Chances are both duels will take place in the same episode of the Final Mission.
I think the Tori/Aneesa duel will follow that of Brad/Landon's. I'm still trying to figure exactly how will they shove 4 Duels and 3 Challenges in 2-1hr episodes.
My guess is we may see 2 challenges next week, the MJ/Evan and Aneesa/Diem duels and the beginning of the Brad/Landon Duel with the appropriate suspending cut off.[/QUOTE]
There's only one challenge left before the final not two. On mtv.com it said there was 9 challenges total and they've just finished 8. So I don't know how the last two duels will be decided.
[quote=dplayer18;78347]There's only one challenge left before the final not two. On mtv.com it said there was 9 challenges total and they've just finished 8. So I don't know how the last two duels will be decided.[/quote]
There has to be 2 more challenges because there is 2 more Duel's unless they do The MJ/Evan duel and The Annessa/Diem Duel and then start with the Brad/Landon Duel and cut off and then show that in the begining of episode 10.
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